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 Post subject: New Old Topic, any updates on B&M 3713
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 6:56 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:27 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Milford,Mass
Hi All
Ya has there been Any NEW NEWS or any Updates on what is Happening with B&M 3713????

The last report or Rumor,was that the current General Manager at Steamtown has stopped all work the locomotive. Yes I understand because of Covid, changes have taken place.

Again any updates would be appreciated Thank you , Pat.


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 Post subject: Re: New Old Topic, any updates on B&M 3713
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 9:22 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 am
Posts: 180
Hi Pat,

I was at Steamtown a little over a week ago and asked the crew working on BLW # 26 about 3713. The answer I got was that it's still being worked on but that they're looking for more funding to get it completed and that it was still over two years away from running. The Lackawanna Valley chapter had been doing much of the fundraising and since the current administration seems to have severed ties with them, I guess this will have to be government funding. There has been no update as to what work has been completed since Jan. 2022, when they showed the completed thermic syphons.

John


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 Post subject: Re: New Old Topic, any updates on B&M 3713
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 1:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 649
rem1028 wrote:
I was at Steamtown a little over a week ago and asked the crew working on BLW # 26 ...

rem1028 - Thanks for the update. I do not want to derail Pat Fahey's thread too much but, if you have a chance, please provide more detail as to what work is being done on 26 as it was mentioned a while back that 26 would be down for needed repairs. Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: New Old Topic, any updates on B&M 3713
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 1:59 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 am
Posts: 180
Sorry, I should have been more clear in my description, I should have said servicing rather than working on. # 26 was just put away in the roundhouse after running all day, and I spoke to the crew tending her.

John


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 Post subject: Re: New Old Topic, any updates on B&M 3713
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 2:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 649
rem1028 wrote:
Sorry, I should have been more clear in my description, I should have said servicing rather than working on. # 26 was just put away in the roundhouse after running all day, and I spoke to the crew tending her.

John

Glad to hear it. Thank you for the clarification. As for 3713, any discussion as to what work remains to be funded? Also, is the cessation of the agreement with the L&WVRHS permanent or is it merely paused while the Park Service conducts a review?


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 Post subject: Re: New Old Topic, any updates on B&M 3713
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 2:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2316
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
Remember guys...it's Steamtown....steams black hole, where projects go to die.

Based upon relative complexities between the 0-6-0 that it took them 16 years ( yes, years) to restore the 3713, should be back under steam by about 2083 give or take a year or two.

If that proves correct none of us currently above ground will be there ( or precious few of us anyway).

It is what it is. Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: New Old Topic, any updates on B&M 3713
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 3:15 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 am
Posts: 180
No, unfortunately I didn't get to ask what work remains. The crew was pretty busy doing what they were doing so I didn't have a chance to speak too long. As far as the agreement with the L & WV chapter, I have heard both, that the agreement is still awaiting renewal, and that the partnership had been dissolved. Considering the length of time it's taking for a new agreement to be put into place, I think the latter is more likely. I tend to agree with Ross, I think it will be a long time if ever before 3713 runs again.

John


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 Post subject: Re: New Old Topic, any updates on B&M 3713
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 3:48 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 649
rem1028 - Thank you. The first agreement was penned in 1995 so, if the dissolution is permanent I guess it is like those folks who are married for 30 years and then decide to get divorced. Better late than never.

With so many other more relevant live steam experiences available, I have not been up to Scranton in years. The rise of for-profit and non-profit rail preservation in the US and the continued intransigence (at best) at STEA over the last decade or so is both encouraging and disheartening at the same time. That said, I still wish to see the equipment in the hands of organizations that could provide more appropriate stewardship of the artifacts.


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 Post subject: Re: New Old Topic, any updates on B&M 3713
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 4:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 am
Posts: 180
So would I. It was very, very disheartening to still see uncapped stacks on CP 2929 and Maine Central 519, weeds growing out of the jacketing of the Brooks Scanlon locomotive, and NKP 44 as well as the other engines I just mentioned all looking worse than the last time I saw any of them, over 2 years ago. If no maintenance was done on any of these pieces in 40 years, it seems unlikely that any will ever be done as long as they are at Steamtown, and I wonder how much longer they can last before any type of restoration is no longer feasible.

John


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 Post subject: Re: New Old Topic, any updates on B&M 3713
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 9:39 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1596
To my knowledge, the most fignificant work that would be left 'undone' is the physical fabrication of the firebox inner wrapper, attachment of the formed syphons to the crownsheet, and drilling for the staybolting (not necessarily in that order, but requiring care).

As those following restoration of this locomotive may know, a reportedly severely botched attempt at this work was made a few years ago. I don't know the 'culprit' (and don't care to know) but this is not a matter of great difficulty for any of the current 'steam shops' -- even the mathematical layout of the staybolt holes could be calculated 'in the flat' before the wrapper is formed, although that is not the way I would have done it.

Bruce Mowbray solicited bids on the necessary work several years ago, and I believe several people responded to that request. I can't imagine, in a world that is seeing relatively prompt (and hopefully error-free!) fabrication of a much larger and more complex firebox and circulators for T1 5550, that there is more than a funding difficulty in getting the necessary work completed to current standards -- this is not a double-nutted K4 kludge situation...

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R.M.Ellsworth


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 Post subject: Re: New Old Topic, any updates on B&M 3713
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 9:39 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1596
To my knowledge, the most fignificant work that would be left 'undone' is the physical fabrication of the firebox inner wrapper, attachment of the formed syphons to the crownsheet, and drilling for the staybolting (not necessarily in that order, but requiring care).

As those following restoration of this locomotive may know, a reportedly severely botched attempt at this work was made a few years ago. I don't know the 'culprit' (and don't care to know) but this is not a matter of great difficulty for any of the current 'steam shops' -- even the mathematical layout of the staybolt holes could be calculated 'in the flat' before the wrapper is formed, although that is not the way I would have done it.

Bruce Mowbray solicited bids on the necessary work several years ago, and I believe several people responded to that request. I can't imagine, in a world that is seeing relatively prompt (and hopefully error-free!) fabrication of a much larger and more complex firebox and circulators for T1 5550, that there is more than a funding difficulty in getting the necessary work completed to current standards -- this is not a double-nutted K4 kludge situation...

_________________
R.M.Ellsworth


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 Post subject: Re: New Old Topic, any updates on B&M 3713
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 11:04 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 pm
Posts: 111
Overmod wrote:
To my knowledge, the most fignificant work that would be left 'undone' is the physical fabrication of the firebox inner wrapper, attachment of the formed syphons to the crownsheet, and drilling for the staybolting (not necessarily in that order, but requiring care).


Both the new firebox and thermic syphons for 3713 have already been fabricated and shipped to Steamtown. Strasburg made both, a little over a year apart.

The firebox needs all the rivet and staybolt holes located and drilled, the firebox needs installed, and the syphon locations in the firebox need to be layed out, cut, and the syphons welded in, and the staybolt holes located and drilled in those as well.

Still a major amount of work to do, but they have all the main firebox components on hand to begin tackling that, if they want to or have the resources to do so.

-Sam

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 Post subject: Re: New Old Topic, any updates on B&M 3713
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 12:20 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 2044
Scranton Yard wrote:
rem1028 - Thank you. The first agreement was penned in 1995 so, if the dissolution is permanent I guess it is like those folks who are married for 30 years and then decide to get divorced. Better late than never.

With so many other more relevant live steam experiences available, I have not been up to Scranton in years. The rise of for-profit and non-profit rail preservation in the US and the continued intransigence (at best) at STEA over the last decade or so is both encouraging and disheartening at the same time. That said, I still wish to see the equipment in the hands of organizations that could provide more appropriate stewardship of the artifacts.



Actually, as an analogy to a broken marriage, it is much the overwhelming number of divorces that are ideated and initiated by one party; (something like 2/3 by the wife), rather than mutually agreed upon dissolutions.

The end of this year will mark ten years since there was road steam. By my count, there are three individuals that carried road steam licenses still there. The old stalwarts, Corwin, O'Brien and Patterson and Shore are now deceased. One of the remaining engineers is near 80.

The most experienced shop mechanics are set to retire (one may already be gone), so the people that remember the days of keeping two locomotives running will be gone.

No trains, no young people preparing to takeover.

And you have to ask yourself, assuming the relationship with the Lackawanna and Wyoming Valley Chapter needed to be revisited; why end it summarily the way it was done. For all the complaints about some NRHS chapters doing little and being insular and closed off, nobody could accuse the Laurel Line Chapter of that, they are a nice bunch of energetic folks. If they resume their "sentimental journeys", you should go-they always have interesting programs.

You aren't the only person who has expressed a "why bother" attitude.

There wasn't a whole lot of appreciation shown for all the years the station at Moscow was manned by volunteers giving their time. I can tell you that there is a sense among others-including people who make it a habit never have a bad word about others- that there is a desire to burn bridges, or at least an insistence on maintaining cadence marching on them, oblivious to the danger of harmonics. Things have been forwarded to me from outside groups that make me ask "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot"?

It took a lot to finally extinguish that last flicker of hope that I had in the place. Getting disingenuously harassed over a nearly year and a half old Facebook post and being told that they routinely surveil social media for matters of interest-how about taking a look at the rust?) while recovering from a life-threatening illness was really the final straw. Sure, I'll get right on that, as soon as I can walk between rooms without gasping for breath.

Ironically, I am told the designated harasser departed after a long tenure. Bureaucrats are by nature creatures of habit- it takes enormous discomfort to make them break their routines.


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 Post subject: Re: New Old Topic, any updates on B&M 3713
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 10:14 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 649
superheater wrote:
And you have to ask yourself

No, I do not.
superheater wrote:
You aren't the only person who has expressed a "why bother" attitude

My post was short and direct. No where in my post do I say or imply a "why bother attitude". Stop projecting.

Have a great day.


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 Post subject: Re: New Old Topic, any updates on B&M 3713
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2022 6:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 2044
Scranton Yard wrote:
superheater wrote:
And you have to ask yourself

No, I do not.

You is a the noun in a general injunction to make an internal inquiry. If you as an individual lack curiosity that's your disposition. Don't personalize the general.

superheater wrote:
You aren't the only person who has expressed a "why bother" attitude



My post was short and direct. No where in my post do I say or imply a "why bother attitude". Stop projecting.

Have a great day.


"With so many other more relevant live steam experiences available, I have not been up to Scranton in years."

Inferred: Why "bother" going.

Item 6, dictionary.com definition of bother.

effort, work, or worry:

Gardening takes more bother than it's worth.


If you are going to pick a fight, do it with somebody rejecting your claim.

Have a nice day, if you can avoid imagined sleights.


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