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NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32037		 Page 2 of 10
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England
Identification:

NYS&W power car

Not sure what the red car is, speculate it came from the NYS&W

884 heavyweight coach: from KRM website: Originally built for the Missouri, Kansas & Texas (KATY) railroad in 1930 and was numbered 884. It was sold to the Hartwell (GA) Railroad and became number 911. It was then used by the New Georgia Railroad where it was number 1101 and was purchased by KRM in 1994. It is a 42 seat coach with central heat and air.

845, also from KRM website: A 52 seat passenger coach with two lounges. It was built in 1950, by Pullman Standard for the Southern Railroad. it was acquired in 2008 from the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad.

I can, in theory, make a good case for the presence of 845 at a Kentucky rail museum. And I find it interesting that they can offer that diversity--heavyweight and lightweights--all with HEP AC. Sure beats a lot of "dog's breakfast" out-and-back-on-a-streak-of-rust-and-branches operations I've seen......
Author:  googanelli [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England
KRM had a complete set of heavyweights not 5 years ago. MOST of them were L&N. They keep investing money in things that have zero to do with Kentucky. Heck, the private care KENTUCKY doesn't even get taken care of. I've been sadly disappointed in going to KRM year after year after having been a member.

As for the cars in question, they have been sitting by Clagg tower for years. I'm glad something is being done. It wouldn't be such a bad idea for KRM to get the freight cars as they represent a big portion of why that track they are on were put there.

Joe
Author:  Frank Hicks [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Not sure what the red car is, speculate it came from the NYS&W


It's a Metro-North, ex-NYC electric MU car.
Author:  wilkinsd [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England
googanelli wrote:
KRM had a complete set of heavyweights not 5 years ago. MOST of them were L&N. They keep investing money in things that have zero to do with Kentucky. Heck, the private care KENTUCKY doesn't even get taken care of. I've been sadly disappointed in going to KRM year after year after having been a member.


For those of you playing along at home, the cars referenced were:

-L&N 1603, a heavyweight combine
-SAL 821, a rebuilt heavyweight, re-rebuilt by the Clinchfield with bus windows so it could be an open window car again. I believe it was traded for the L&N lounge car Kentucky Club, which is still in Florida, awaiting shipment.
-L&N2554, a rebuilt heavyweight. Rebuilt by the L&N into a semi-streamlined car, rebuilt by the CRR with the bus winows.
-L&N 2572, another rebuilt heavyweight. Also has the infamous bus windows.
-L&N2587, former NC&StL rebuilt heavyweight, rebuilt for the "City of Memphis." It had pretty bad side sill rust (from the aforementioned bus window conversion) and was sold in the mid 1990s to a museum in Tennessee for static display.

Of those five, 3 are on the property in various states of repair and disrepair. With a little work the combine could be made operable again. Combine these three up with the Kentucky Club and the Kentucky and you'd have a nice blue and gray train.

The best long-term use of the two remaining bus window cars is restoration to sealed window cars. The bus windows are rather leaky and can cause significant problems over time.

The MKT car was purchased in the 1990s to give the museum an AC equipped heavyweight to match the train. At the time, the only AC equipped car was an ex SP coach #2359, which was traded to the Madison RR in Indiana for an ex L&N heavyweight diner.

One of the driving forces behind sidelining this equipment and buying the "train" photographed above, was a desire to get into the dinner train business, provide plenty of seats for that little blue tank engine, and other non-museum activities. The dinner train "operation" in particular is an obsession by at least one member of the BOD. (Nevermind that RJ Corman runs a dinner train a mere 13 miles up the road and can do it far better than anyone else). This person has said for years that it was just a matter of time before Corman pulls out of Bardstown. This led to the purchase of a power car, other coaches an an ex CN diner, while the L&N heavyweight diner (later converted to work train service but rather intact) rots.

To be honest, KRM has never asked me to donate money, but if they did, I'd be lothe to, and I'm a big fan of the L&N. I understand the frustration, but know complaining about it here won't do anything.
Author:  Jim Herron [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England
Re: 152: It is currently out of service for boiler work. It may not be back this year and next year, if they can get the boiler issues fixed, it most likely it's last unless funds are raised to re-build it. Add to that the need for more crew members to do the repairs.

-JH
Author:  PLATFORMCAR [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England
Thought some members might want to see the current condition of the cars in Mr. Wilkins posting... ( first is L&N 1603 ) .. which is shoved in a line of other dead cars..

In addition it would seem there are plenty of other heavyweight L&N baggage cars on the property along with L&N "Pearl River", among dozens of other cars that all need attention... ( including L&N business car 363 )


Dean Levin

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Author:  PLATFORMCAR [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England
along with two cars Mr. Wilkins mentions was the 2554 and the 2572 ( photographs taken last week )


Dean Levin

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Author:  wilkinsd [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England
Mr. Levin,

Thanks for the photos. Sad and sobering. I remember when this stuff was serviceable.


Let me know if you are ever in the STL area, I'll buy you a Stag.
Author:  etalcos [ Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England
Les,

Tonight's update on the boxcar: It does appear that the car has found a new owner who will further its preservation, and that it will not be going to LaGrange. When I can, I'll pass along additional details.

Sincerely,

He, she, it....
Author:  Les Beckman [ Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England
That is great news! That was my primary concern. Thanks for the info!

Les
Author:  Hayneshopcat [ Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England
I can remember when the Pearl River had no broken windows and was in great shape on the inside. It was sitting at KRM at the time. I can also remember two Budd Coaches that were half destroyed by vandals on the inside.....about like the Pearl River is now......all while sitting at KRM. I don't pay them much attention but I cannot believe that they have parked the L&N heavyweights and left them for the weather and the vandals. Someone should be put in jail for that. And did I see somewhere in this thread someone say "wear out the E-6" and further imply that they should not wear it out operating it? When did they ever operate it and why should they not wear it out by operating it and the repair it and wear it out again? And yes, I know it is only a shell.
Author:  googanelli [ Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England
15 years ago, the museum had a different mission. I was seeing more equipment get saved. It seems that around 10 years ago, they began to just want to run trains. There are so many ways this group could do things to preserve Kentucky's history of railroads but doesn't. I've spoken with quite a few friends on the board about ideas. Some people are happy to just exist and I tend to think that this group is doing just that. I can tell you individual stories on pieces of equipment that would boggle the mind. I only hope that the changing of the guard occurs sooner than later and that a unified mission of preserving Kentucky's railroad heritage occurs. Merely running trains until they wear out and doing little work on them once they need repairs isn't a mission statement.

Joe
Author:  Les Beckman [ Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England
Hayneshopcat wrote:
I can remember when the Pearl River had no broken windows and was in great shape on the inside.

And did I see somewhere in this thread someone say "wear out the E-6" and further imply that they should not wear it out operating it? When did they ever operate it and why should they not wear it out by operating it and the repair it and wear it out again? And yes, I know it is only a shell.


I recall someone telling me a few years ago that a gentleman who owned an E-8 or E-9 was willing to transfer the "inners" into L&N E-6 #770 to get it running again. I am not sure exactly what the offered deal was, but apparently KRM said no. Yes, the restoration wouldn't have been "authentic" but you have to wonder, looking at the current condition of the 770, if it might not have made sense. Of course, maybe that report was untrue.

Les
Author:  Les Beckman [ Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
Gents -

Since I started this thread and since it seems people have moved it to a somewhat different (slightly related) subject, I have made a slight change in the subject line for future reference. Don't know if that is "Kosher" or not, but felt that it should be done. Throw bricks if you wish.

Les
Author:  PLATFORMCAR [ Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England
Mr. Hayneshopcat.... ( and the forum )

The L&N "Pearl River" 10/6 is shown below, with what appears to have ever single window broken out... You know, often the most amazing thing that happens in my eyes, is that assuming like you said, this car was complete and in fine condition, when ever and what the circumstances were when in act of vandalism broke out every window, why wasn't it repaired ?. Glazing a car is not difficult, and although there is some expense such as glass and gasket material, and labor, to me when you become the care taker of any object you have a responsibility to that object to care for it. In theory if it was vandalism, I am sure the museum was likely insured, and could have used the money from the claim to repair such noticeable damage ? Would this not be equal to having damage to their station, and in theory collecting the insurance proceeds and leaving the depot in disrepair ? ( I suspect its easier to push a passenger car into the weeds and forget about it, collect the money, or don't even bother preparing a claim ) versus repair the depot which is in the eye of the public...

Today, if we take the "Pearl River" or the other dozen rusted out passenger cars or freight cars on the property, what true benefit is there to own something, if there is no intent to care for it ?. This isn't per say meant to say that KRM is alone in this regard, however, it would seem to the outsider, that there is no true plan to care for the collection, as with the exception of the CF7 and BL2 and perhaps a SOO wide vision caboose, little showed much attention.

and for Mr. Wilkins, I will be in St. Louis next month, so perhaps I can take you up on that offer of a frosty Stag.... ( golden quality .. since 1851 ) ..and for your continued kindness, I would again offer a 12 pack of cans or bottles to you... rememeber... Stag makes "thirst a pleasure" ...


Dean Levin

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