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 Post subject: Re: Rock Island commuter equipment question
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:21 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 4996
Thanks for the thoughtful note. A quick response. There IS a Rock Island Technical Society (I was a member for a number of years), but it is apparently in "disarray" at the present time. There has been some effort to get it going again, but certainly they are not in any position currently to aid in the preservation of this car. I have talked to a member of the Monticello Railway Museum, who had advised me of the cars existence, but he says that MRM would have no interest in the car at all.

A thought might be the outfit in Iowa that now owns the two Rock Island E units that they are reportedly restoring. I believe that their location is Manley, Iowa. Do I have that right? The 2700's, although built in 1949 for Chicago commuter service, were used on occasion by the Rock Island in intercity passenger service as overflow, or substitute, cars.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Rock Island commuter equipment question
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
I find this thread mildly amusing in that several posters are trying to proscribe some sort of monolithic mentality on the active membership of the Illinois Railway Museum ("IRM"). IRM is a large organization, with many departments, and many interests on the part of the volunteers and active members. From the organization's very beginnings, it appears that most rolling stock acquired by the museum was acquired through the support and hard work of a "patron," a member who spearheaded the acquisition process, initiated fundraising, ect. These efforts do not have to be formal, as I've personally seen RYPN poster RWKPullman walking amongst the members asking for donations for a specific piece of equipment.

IRM has a farily nice fleet of servicable RI "Al Capone" cars, with another one, which later went to the CRANDIC, being worked on as we speak. Steam Department volunteers are working hard to put a new paint job on RI 638, the 4-6-2.

Further, it's not like this car is on live rail, with a current COT&S and ready to moved and placed into service upon arrival at IRM's interchange with the UP.

At the end of the day, we can bloviate all we want about the purported benefits this car has to offer IRM, but it will take a person or two, involved in the museum, to put together a plan and approach the museum's board of directors.

Another salient point is whether the true condition of the car is known. Whomever spearheads this effort would need to ascertain the answers to the following questions, if not others:

-How much structural rust or body rust does it have?
-Will it need significant repairs? If so, how much?
-Does it still have the Ice Engine?
-If not, how much would it cost to install a more modern air conditioner in the car? -What about powering the car if the Ice Engine is missing?
-What is the seller's "bottom dollar" and how much wiggle room does he have in the price?
-What condidition are the trucks in? Are the wheels servicable?
-How much would it cost to move it to IRM?
-Can replacement seats be found?
-Using volunteer effort, how long would it take to make the car servicable?

The list goes on. Honestly, assuming someone could pony up the $20k or so to buy the car and move it to IRM (overly conservative estimate here), they have done the easy part. The hard part will be marshalling IRM resources and fundraising to make the car one which would be used in service.

This is why it's often much easier to be an armchair preservationist, demanding other museums do what we think is best, rather than actually doing something. Bottom line, if you think this car should be saved at IRM, partner with someone who is involved and develop a cost estimate and present it to the Board of Directors for approval.

Les, those RI E-units are still sitting at Mid America Car in Kansas City, last I heard.

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 Post subject: Re: Rock Island commuter equipment question
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:55 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 4996
wilkinsd wrote:



Les, those RI E-units are still sitting at Mid America Car in Kansas City, last I heard.


David -

Thanks for that info.



Les


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 Post subject: Re: Rock Island commuter equipment question
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:04 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 253
Les Beckman wrote:
A thought might be the outfit in Iowa that now owns the two Rock Island E units that they are reportedly restoring. I believe that their location is Manley, Iowa. Do I have that right? The 2700's, although built in 1949 for Chicago commuter service, were used on occasion by the Rock Island in intercity passenger service as overflow, or substitute, cars.

Les


That'd be the Manly Junction Railroad Museum.

Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/manlyjunction

That's Dan Sabin's brainchild/project. Both E-units need hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of work. Somebody should probably point out this car to Mr. Sabin, the worst he can say is no.

If Sabin won't or can't acquire it, come up with a proposal to bring this car to IRM (Since this seems to be the favorite). Use David's guide above as a check list.

I can say if IRM does acquire the car, I will put work into restoring it.

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 Post subject: Re: Rock Island commuter equipment question
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:42 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:52 am
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A lot of the rolling stock IRM has obtained in the past few years has been brought on the property before their weird "track fees" and "barn fees" were covered, sometimes even displacing other pieces that had been stored indoors for years prior. So I don't see why that itself should prevent anything else from being brought in with the same arrangement of reimbursing for the amount of "space" it takes up later.

It seems this car will have to be craned and trucked at least to the nearest available rail siding where it can be put on a flatcar, since it is probably not interchange worthy.

I cannot provide anywhere near the likely costs, but I wish to announce to the appropriate parties that I am willing to donate what I can to any official fund at any organization to assist with the most urgently needed upfront costs (purchase and moving) of securing this artifact.


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 Post subject: Re: Rock Island commuter equipment question
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:33 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Kansas City Suburbs
Aw c'mon guys! The scrap dealer has us fighting amongst ourselves again!

Let's see if we can constructively come up with about $20k somewhere, and plant it in Monticello, MOT or even Baldwin City.

I used to love to commute on this equipment.

According to Randall, V:1, some of these cars were AC and some were NOT!

H Jebone from the Morgan Park-111th St Station


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 Post subject: Re: Rock Island commuter equipment question
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:16 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 4996
H Jebone -

I too rode in 2700's at times, when commuting from Washington Heights (104th Street) on the Main Line and from 115th Street (Morgan Park) on the Suburban Line. I too would like to see the 2702 saved but an organization has got to be willing to try. Haven't seen that yet.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Rock Island commuter equipment question
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:56 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
hjebone wrote:
According to Randall, V:1, some of these cars were AC and some were NOT!


Details from Randall's Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard:

20 cars, CRI&P #2700-#2719, Lot #W6834, Plan #W51908, Lot ordered in May 1947, cars delivered between October and November 1949.

These cars were built to 3 different variants:

Variation 1 consisted of 4 cars, #2700-#2703, with AC, 100 seats, and restrooms.

Variation 2 consisted of 8 cars, #2704-#2711, with AC, 102 seats, and no restrooms.

Variation 3 consisted of 8 cars, #2712-#2719, with forced draft ventilation, 102 seats, and no restrooms.

In 1950, 7 cars from variants 2 and 3 were changed to variation 1: 4 cars from variation 2 (#2704, #2705, #2710, and #2711), and 3 cars from variation 3 (#2712, #2713, and #2717). Randall does not note if the 3 cars from variation 3 were changed from forced draft to AC.

As far as dispositions, here's what's listed:

2 cars (#2700 and #2701) were both wrecked in 1972.

8 cars (#2703-#2709, and #2718) were sold to the Erman Corporation in 1977.

10 cars (#2702, #2710-#2717, and #2719) were sold to the Erman Corporation in 1978.

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 Post subject: Re: Rock Island commuter equipment question
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:26 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Looking at the Rock Island Technical Society's passenger car disposition list: http://www.rits.org/www/equipment/ripassdisp.html

#2702 is not listed, but #2711 is listed as located in Manhattan, KS.

Reading the Trainorders thread linked to on page 1, besides #2702 in Herington, other Crazy Cleve's locations mentioned were in Manhattan and Emporia. The car used in Emporia is not mentioned, but after Crazy Cleve's closed, #2711 was moved to Amarillo, TX.

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 Post subject: Re: Rock Island commuter equipment question
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:33 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2080
It isn't IRM isnt interested, its is there support behind it. Thats what drives IRM.

If it is sitting safe for now, perhaps a drive isnt needed, but if its in line for a scrapper's torch, perhaps you will get an alert out and try to find a home.

IRM still needs more barns for more equipment to get under cover.


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 Post subject: Re: Rock Island commuter equipment question
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:40 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:20 pm
Posts: 448
The topic of these cars came up on Trainorders yesterday. Membership not required to read page 1 of the chat.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/r ... 11,3516716


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