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 Post subject: Oldest Internal Combustion Loco?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:53 pm
Posts: 131
I was wondering if anyone knows what the oldest existing internal combustion locomotive might be. I'm guessing that it might be a Plymouth, or similar gas-mechanical.

Also, was wondering what the oldest one, that is in operating condition, might be.

Thanks for any info that you might have.

John Redden


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 Post subject: Re: Oldest Internal Combustion Loco?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:45 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:32 am
Posts: 172
Location: CT
I have heard that once its out of the shops the Valley Railroads 0901 GE 80 tonner will be the oldest. Built 1937 or something like that. It used to work either for Pfizer or the Groton Shipyard, I forget which. If I'm not mistaken it was a prototype 80 tonner as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Oldest Internal Combustion Loco?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:42 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:55 pm
Posts: 76
Location: St. Louis, MO
The MOT in St. Louis has a B&O diesel electric built by GE, Ingersoll-Rand and Alco in 1925 (not operational) and a 15 ton
Whitcomb mechanical drive built about 1930 that runs, but has clutch problems.. It originally had a gasoline engine, now a diesel.
The B&O locomotive is claimed to be the second diesel-electric to enter commercial service.


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 Post subject: Re: Oldest Internal Combustion Loco?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:47 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:15 am
Posts: 718
Location: Illinois
Our Ingersoll from the Lackawanna (at IRM) has to be right back there with yours at MOT. Again, not operational at this time.

I bet there is a fair amount of stuff surviving from the 1930's although a lot may have been re-engined along the way.

Does anything on wheels count? We have a velocipede with a little one lunger putt putt for motive power and this does not seem to be a later conversion. All wood spindles, spokes and stuff held together with screws and carriage bolts. Certainly it seems pre 1920.

Bob Kutella


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 Post subject: Re: Oldest Internal Combustion Loco?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:14 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:41 pm
Posts: 814
Location: Bowling Green, KY
I overhauled a 10 ton 1937 Davenport to operation in Savannah last year. It now has a modern 6 cyl turbo charged truck prime mover along with an Allison automatic transmission all of which is connected to the original gearbox mounted on the rear axle. The old prime mover had more cracks than the Grand Canyon.


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 Post subject: Re: Oldest Internal Combustion Loco?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:33 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:19 am
Posts: 545
Location: Scottsboro, AL
Although often overlooked, the North Alabama Railroad Museum has a GE/Ingersoll-Rand boxcab built in 1926. It was re-engined in 1960. The locomotive is undergoing a slow but thorough restoration at NARM.

Alan Maples


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 Post subject: Re: Oldest Internal Combustion Loco?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:28 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2126
Location: Northern Illinois
IRM has a ALCo - IR - GE of similar vintage, a former DL&W unit last used as the IR plant switcher at Phillipsburg. It is not operable, but complete as far as I know.

The title for oldest may go to MTM, which has a former "Dan Patch Line" unit that was one of the original GE experimentals, dating to 1915 or so, as I recall. The unit was de-engined and converted to straight electric propulsion, then reconverted to Diesel power again, all before WWII. I beleive it is operable.

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: Oldest Internal Combustion Loco?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:37 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2126
Location: Northern Illinois
Too quick on the trigger finger this morning. Here's a link to a page about the IRM locomotive:

http://www.irm.org/cgi-bin/rsearch.cgi? ... stern=3001

Here's a link to info about the Dan Patch Lines loco:

http://www.mtmuseum.org/jsr/roster/dpl100.html

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: Oldest Internal Combustion Loco?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:44 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:19 pm
Posts: 1121
Location: Washington, D.C.
Two schools of thought on the oldest surviving North American internal combustion railroad locmotive:

1. Dan Patch 100 at Minnesota Transportation Museum

Data from S. Berliner's Boxcab's page:

Originally built by GE in June of 1913 as a two-engined (GM-16C4 - 175hp) gas-electric of 36' 4" length, sold to Central Warehouse Co., St. Paul, converted by CW in 1918 to straight electric with trolley pole, sold to Minneapolis, Anoka & Cuyuna Range in 1922, sold to Northern Ordnance in 1943, rehabilitated and renumbered #1, back to #100 in 1946, converted to diesel-electric (250-hp Waukesha 6 WAKDU) in August 1957, sold to FMC in 1964, on land bought by GN in 1966, and finally donated to MTM in 1967.

So, this is oldest, but heavily modified, with much later replacement prime mover

2. CNJ #1000 at the B&O Museum

Formerly Ingersoll-Rand 1925 Demonstrator #9681. The first production Diesel-electric locomotive completed by GE-IR-Alco.

Younger, but in almost pristine condition with original prime mover, etc. Oldest surviving GE-IR-Alco boxcab.

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Erik Ledbetter
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 Post subject: Re: Oldest Internal Combustion Loco?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:06 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:01 am
Posts: 37
Location: Middletown, DE
Isn't Strasburg's #2 Plymouth, that they purchased in 1984 originally built in 1910?

Paul

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Paul L. Calpin


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 Post subject: Re: Oldest Internal Combustion Loco?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:56 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:50 am
Posts: 489
Location: Columbia, MD
I thought that Strasburg #1 was purchased new by the railroad in 1926. I may be wrong, but I think it is of that approximate vintage.


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 Post subject: Re: Oldest Internal Combustion Loco?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:14 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:19 pm
Posts: 1121
Location: Washington, D.C.
Kevin Gillespie wrote:
I thought that Strasburg #1 was purchased new by the railroad in 1926. I may be wrong, but I think it is of that approximate vintage.


Strasburg Plymouth HL 20T #1, blt 1926 cn2452

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Erik Ledbetter
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 Post subject: Re: Oldest Internal Combustion Loco?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:50 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:07 am
Posts: 218
And the B&O Museum in Baltimore has CNJ 1000, THE first diesel to successfully enter revenue service.

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Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: Oldest Internal Combustion Loco?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:40 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:30 pm
Posts: 59
According to their website, the first Plymouth ML6 is at the Whitewater Valley Railroad 1-30. It was originally sold to Wagner Quarries in Sandusky Ohio. It is an operable 30 ton unit and has its original LeRoi gasoline engine. Buiilders #3382. I would think that an older Plymouth would exist, though one with the original Buda or LeRoi may be harder to find.

The Railroad Musuem of Greater Cincinnati (Railway Expo) has a small older Davenport or Brookville that may have its original engine as well. They don't show a roster on their website, maybe this one is older still.

James Kissinger


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 Post subject: Re: Oldest Internal Combustion Loco?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:49 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:05 am
Posts: 1140
Location: San Francisco
Folks,

You are neglectiong the Dootlebugs: such as the Nevada Copperbelt 21 at the California Railroad Museum. it is still powered by an original Hall-Scott gas engine from about 1925.

Then there is the narrow gauge Sumpter Valley 101 powered by its original Climax gas engine. the syitcher was converted to standard gauge and the museum folks are now taking it back to narrow gauge.

The Dan Patch engine sure sounds like a winner to me.

if you want to talk old; then you need to stay with the frames that are still powered by their old engines. Most of the Galloping Geese in Colorado have new engines, making them too modern for this list.

Anybody can put a new truck engine in something and operate it, but is it old?


Ted Miles


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