> This same discussion continues to brought up
> in different forms and yet nothing seems to
> really have changed. Frank, I too do not
> wish to attack specific groups like ORM, but
> that may be the only way that anything ever
> happens. We all seem to generally agree
> something needs to be done, but no one seems
> to be willing to take the first step. Who is
> going to confront the ORM's of this world
> with the reality of their situation, before
> its too late? I wish with all my heart that
> I could take my son to see that most
> historic of traction equipment in the
> country somewhere else than that glorified
> scrap heap. There's a DSR Peter Witt rotting
> away under the tarp there that I would
> dearly love to ride!

> TJG

You're certainly right that the traditional attitude of "it's mine and you can't have it" hasn't changed in the least. From what little I understand of the ORM situation, no one has really taken charge of the organization. Certainly there are too few people doing anything to even begin to lift the museum out of the mire of rust and rot it has fallen into. In addition, I'm fairly sure that no one at ORM (or most other places) would be willing to part with any of their equipment. It isn't so much that they're saying they'd rather see it scrapped than saved somewhere else; I think it's more a case of denial. These museums figure that the equipment is fairing "well enough" at their site, that it wouldn't do any better anywhere else, and that sooner or later they'll fix it up themselves. Well, this generally doesn't happen.

Several years ago, there was a front page article in the Wall Street Journal about the scramble to save old interurban bodies. An individual from a museum which has seen a rapid decline in its activities in the past two decades was quoted extensively. Among other things, he mourned the fact that a particular interurban body (Fort Wayne & Wabash Valley #504) had been bought by IRM when he had wanted it for his museum. He claimed that it was just another rotting hulk at IRM, joining the many others there. Well, he obviously didn't realize that IRM had poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into a complete, floor-to-roof restoration of #504.

Sorry if I'm ranting here, but there's always been a serious problem of factionalization in the railway preservation industry. While cooperation between museums in obtaining parts and information is common, railway equipment has always been something that people have felt that they were permanently entitled to, no matter how little they kept it maintained. The railway preservation industry is a paradox of a community wwhere the individual organizations both fight for each other and against each other. The idea that "we're all in this together" just doesn't seem to be very widely held.

Frank Hicks

> Sounds like the Ohio Railway Museum here in
> Columbus, OH. What happened there? From what
> I can gather,stupidity,infighting and the
> lack of a cohesive master plan is what did
> that place in. An operating railway museum
> in the middle of a 1,000,000 + person market
> in a city that many people lament there is
> nothing to do in. Many would kill
> (figuratively) to have their museum in such
> a rich market. But being open four hours on
> Sundays with rat infested, tarped remains of
> cars won't attract middle class and upper
> middle class patrons. You know, the people
> with DISPOSABLE INCOME.

> When I was up in northeast Ohio I was an
> active member of two organizations. One has
> a sizable equipment collection but no
> permanent home. The other has a smaller
> collection and a small parcel of land that
> they had "started" a rail museum
> on with a string of equipment. I was the
> leading active member of both groups, but
> amazingly when I moved to Columbus all work
> on the equipment seemed to cease. I was
> hoping that someone would carry on and
> continue maintaining the equipment, but
> nobody has stepped forward from the
> membership ranks of either organization to
> maintain the equipment. It greatly
> distresses me to see that happening, because
> I spent a good 10 years working on pieces
> that are now losing the battle to vandals
> and the elements.

> I am sure there are many stories like that.
> Well meaning organizations that are in way
> over their heads, with dreams of rail
> museums that will never materialize,
> meanwhile priceless equipment rots.

> Oh well. What to do?

I had a similar experience. I moved back to Columbus ten years ago, after 8 years in Arizona.
I thought I would like to join the Ohio Railway Museum. So I went one Sunday, as I rode the train
I over heard some members talking, we passed someone working on a PCC car, they laughed and said "why's he working on that were going to scrap it". That's the last time I have been there other to drive buy to see if it look's like anything is going on.
I'd love to find a preservation project to work on. The only well done thing in this area is the C&O caboose preserved along the Kokosing Cap rail trail.


downdrickson@ecr.net

Instead of focusing on museums that may not be doing well I would like to point out the efforts of the Association of Railway Museums over the past few years, particularly their "Recommended Practices for Railway Museums" Project. This has been a partnership with the American Association of Museums and the Institute of Museum & Library Services (the funder) to provide a guide to help all railway museums provide better sites for their visitors and for their collections. If you have read it and are interested in seeing railway museums improve themselves, you can download it at ARM's new Website www.railwaymuseums.org.

Where I work at the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum, just outside Pittsburgh, we have become a Community organization with a Capital "C." What that means is that we are growing our volunteer base - we had well over 25,000 donated hours in 2000, a 5% increase over 1999 - as well as getting increased funding and inkind donations from a wide range of community organizations. You can see our website at www.pa-trolley.org. We always welcome new members and volunteers
- why not join our winning team!

Sometimes I think it's more productive to focus on the positive railway museum projects around us rather than those that are less fortunate. We can all learn from success stories!

sbecker@pa-trolley.org

Scott,

Glad to hear about your success story!!! I'm sure that it all starts with the leadership setting the example and leading by example.

Ray

> Instead of focusing on museums that may not
> be doing well I would like to point out the
> efforts of the Association of Railway
> Museums over the past few years,
> particularly their "Recommended
> Practices for Railway Museums" Project.
> This has been a partnership with the
> American Association of Museums and the
> Institute of Museum & Library Services
> (the funder) to provide a guide to help all
> railway museums provide better sites for
> their visitors and for their collections. If
> you have read it and are interested in
> seeing railway museums improve themselves,
> you can download it at ARM's new Website
> www.railwaymuseums.org.

> Where I work at the Pennsylvania Trolley
> Museum, just outside Pittsburgh, we have
> become a Community organization with a
> Capital "C." What that means is
> that we are growing our volunteer base - we
> had well over 25,000 donated hours in 2000,
> a 5% increase over 1999 - as well as getting
> increased funding and inkind donations from
> a wide range of community organizations. You
> can see our website at www.pa-trolley.org.
> We always welcome new members and volunteers
> - why not join our winning team!

> Sometimes I think it's more productive to
> focus on the positive railway museum
> projects around us rather than those that
> are less fortunate. We can all learn from
> success stories!

> Sorry if I'm ranting here, but there's
> always been a serious problem of
> factionalization in the railway preservation
> industry. While cooperation between museums
> in obtaining parts and information is
> common, railway equipment has always been
> something that people have felt that they
> were permanently entitled to, no matter how
> little they kept it maintained. The railway
> preservation industry is a paradox of a
> community wwhere the individual
> organizations both fight for each other and
> against each other. The idea that
> "we're all in this together" just
> doesn't seem to be very widely held.

Frank, that's it in a nutshell. No matter how hard a group or individual tries to get along with another group in our hobby, deep down there seems to be a "its mine, and I won't share" mentality going on. My museum is no better than any other in this regard, and its not just regulated to rail equipment; in fact, I say when it comes to railroad documents or hardware, this mentality is even worse.

I'll give an example from our own collection. Long before I came here, a gentleman donated a large amount of transportation related items to our museum. Some fit in with the history of transportation in our area; others do not. One section that does not is a wonderfully complete series of Canadian Pacific, Great Northern, Northern Pacific, and Burlington ( abit more sparse, but still fairly complete) timetables from the late 1940's until Amtrak Day. To me, these do not belong in a museum in Michigan; ideally, they belong in rail museums in Canada, the Dakotas, or somehwere else in the areas where these railroads were located.

Trying to get that past a collection committee is a tough sell sometimes, but in our case, we've begun to realize that its one that needs to be made. A museum cannot and should not except everything that comes through its doors. At some point you have to draw the line in regards to what you can and cannot except. Unless there is a deaccession plan that is just as active as the accessioning program, all you will have is a bunch of boxes piled floor to ceiling in a room that you can't even walk in. Or, in the case of ORM and others, a large amount of equipment rusting away on every inch of available track space.

TJG


Port Huron Museum
peremarquette@hotmail.com

> I had a similar experience. I moved back to
> Columbus ten years ago, after 8 years in
> Arizona.
> I thought I would like to join the Ohio
> Railway Museum. So I went one Sunday, as I
> rode the train
> I over heard some members talking, we passed
> someone working on a PCC car, they laughed
> and said "why's he working on that were
> going to scrap it". That's the last
> time I have been there other to drive buy to
> see if it look's like anything is going on.

I know what you're talking about. Sometime, in the 1980's I think, ORM acquired a pair of Toronto PCC cars that were originally from Cincinnati. One of the members there was working on the cars for a while, but somehow he made some enemies. He was run off the property and the museum scrapped the two PCC's he had been working on. Of course, there is only one other ex-Cincinnati PCC in existence, and it's in a museum in Canada where it'll be restored as a Toronto car. Some people are just incredibly short-sighted.

> All museams have to first look at what will
> attract the public. It is the publics money
> that makes it possible for the members to
> play. Unfortunately, most museum
> organizations do not develope the right
> vision that attracts enough of the public to
> survive.

Studies continue to show that cultural and heritage tourism are big business. If railway museums are not cashing in on this big business, why is that? What does bring the public in the door?

The answer is probably NOT what brings us in the door. Maybe our appeal has been too narrow.

And, if people do want to come in the door, are we ready? Do they see enough to come back? Perhaps we are working for years on one locomotive thinking of how glorious it will be when it's ready to show. But before that, what are people looking at? Perhaps we need more exhibits that come on line faster.

Our infrastructure probably puts us on the wrong side of the tracks. The for-profit tourist attractions have people working on their sites, their marketing, their programs 7 days a week. It's kind of hard for an all-volunteer place to compete with that.

Look at the big boys down the street and you'll see that they have so many movers and shakers listed as board members and advisors and consultants that their stationery has little room for the letter. Do we have people on our boards who can bring in the bucks? If not, we might as well add our museums to the list of those that are dying or that will be someday soon. Even if people come in the door, we can't support ourselves on gate receipts.

Trouble is, much of what really needs to be done here makes our eyes glaze over because it's not the thing we signed on to do.

--Malcolm

collections@srmduluth.org

> Look at the big boys down the street and
> you'll see that they have so many movers and
> shakers listed as board members and advisors
> and consultants that their stationery has
> little room for the letter. Do we have
> people on our boards who can bring in the
> bucks? If not, we might as well add our
> museums to the list of those that are dying
> or that will be someday soon.

Don't be so modest, Malcolm. I for one applaud your recent successes with Georgia TEA21. All good points too.

Dave

lathro19@idt.net

your # 1 assest is your memebers - the one's who own the museum. Lose them, and you have a collection - nothing else.

Take care of your members - new and old ones. They are the life blood above all else.

You are not a for profit business - therefore - the bottom line that all for-profit businessed measure against isn't there!

JimLundquist55@yahoo.com

> your # 1 assest is your memebers - the one's
> who own the museum. Lose them, and you have
> a collection - nothing else.

No, I respectfully but firmly disagree--I'd say the customers-- i.e., the visitors--own the museum. That's the whole point of non-profit status-- you are a public trust, meaning for the public, not the members.

eledbetter@mail.rypn.org

> Don't be so modest, Malcolm. I for one
> applaud your recent successes with Georgia
> TEA21. All good points too.

> Dave

Thanks, Dave. And you really do need to say a little more about the great things going on down at your "rail yard."



collections@srmduluth.org

I must comment on ARM's "Recommended
Practices for Railway Museums". When I passed copies of this out to people in our group, even some of the more difficult ones noted that this was the blueprint we needed to expand upon. If you're group is willing at all to improve itself this document can really help point you in the right direction. I can't thank those involved in that project enough!

As stated earlier, you can download it at ARM's new Website www.railwaymuseums.org and you really should do so.

David Farlow
Whitewater Valley Railroad



rfarlow@bcaconsultants.com

> Instead of focusing on museums that may not
> be doing well I would like to point out the
> efforts of the Association of Railway
> Museums over the past few years,
> particularly their "Recommended
> Practices for Railway Museums" Project.
> This has been a partnership with the
> American Association of Museums and the
> Institute of Museum & Library Services
> (the funder) to provide a guide to help all
> railway museums provide better sites for
> their visitors and for their collections.
> you have read it
> seeing railway museums improve themselves,
> you can download it at ARM's new Website
> www.railwaymuseums.org.

> Scott: Its great to hear that you are still very active. I applaud your efforts and success. It shows what great leadership with the proper vision can accomplish. Its to bad that others did not see the vision that you and others had here in Connecticut, Our loss and penns gain. I still feel that there is great potential in railway preservation to give the public a true sense of the time of the railway and trolley car, not the amusment ride version.

I would also suggest that ARM should study both success stories and the dying. A study like this may help to create more success than failure in the future. One can create wealth by learning from ones failures.
Drop me a line some time at cchestnut@earthlink.net


cchestnut@earthlink.net

> Thanks, Dave. And you really do need to say
> a little more about the great things going
> on down at your "rail yard."

Big things: getting cleaned up, moved into the new gift shop and ticket office facility, preparing for a large event April 21 called "blues and barbecue" (yeah Bob but it pays the bills). Streetcars coming along nicely, getting GOAT ready for monthly fireups starting April, working on proposals for 3 big restoration projects and 13-15 smaller projects to start about April or May. Also starting summer jobs for college students on those projects and trying to fund a school year college internship program through Armstrong State University. Opening doors for the new generation.

So, we are making some progress but we still aren't SERM. Still want to trade you that 0-4-0T for the C of G coach, whenever you can bring it down........

Dave


lathro19@idt.net