Thinking about making a road trip to Colorado this summer to visit Caboose Hobbies, and CB&Q 5629 in Golden, amongst other things (yes, I know I need to go east to Baltimore to see Kevin Gillespie and AFT #1 ... one of these days!).

While searching around for info on the C&T (I REALLY need to go there), I came across info on the former Florida East Coast 148 being moved to Colorado for operation on a former D&RG branch to Creede.

I can't seem to find anything current on this through the usual web searches. Can anyone help me with any current info?

Thanks in advance,
Burlington John

Burlington John wrote, "I came across info on the former Florida East Coast 148 being moved to Colorado for operation on a former D&RG branch to Creede."


Hi John,

What is the FEC 148?

You might contact someone via <www.wagon-wheel-gap-route.freehomepage.com>.

Good Luck, Roger

Florida East Coast 148, a 4-6-2 light Pacific. I checked the website, but it appears that it hasn't been updated in some time ...

Thanks for the tip,

Burlington John

148 is a sister to Gold Coast RR 153, Savanah and Atlanta 750 and Georgia Northern 107. 113 is slightly different. 148 and her sisters were built to haul light trains very quickly on flat track with broad curves in Florida. Certainly an interesting choice for a Colorado mountain railroad!

dave

Dave -

How does 113 differ from her four sisters?

Les

If I recall the Creede branch profile correctly, it is relatively flat valley running until the last 5-10 miles into Creede itself.
Doug vV

Dougvv wrote, "... the Creede branch profile .. is relatively flat valley running until the last 5-10 miles into Creede."



Hi,

Of course, the profile is as flat as a pancake if the loco never runs &/or the line never opens!

I'd say there's a 10% chance the tracks will be refurbished by 2010 and a 50/50 chance the line will be ready in 2015.

It would be a pleasant trip and boost South Fork's economy. Greede (sic) hates the idea and has sued the Wagon Gap Route folks several times (3?) and, fortunately, lost. The suits, however, cost the railroad time and money.

Cheers, Roger

The 148 and I go back to the day she arrived at BR&W in the '60s. Having been around that engine on several railroads, I have a few good stories to tell, but maybe the most appropriate one for this topic involves the day they ran her to Lambertville and came back with 11 covered hoppers of feed.

To set the stage, you have to understand that the BR&W interchanged with the Penn Central in Lambertville at the time. The freight normally operated M/W/F, with an EMD SW-1. If the train was expected to be large, the conductor would run the GE 65-tonner as part of a doubleheader, at least as far as Ringoes. The GM used to say that "every cylinder helps".

Ringoes, the midpoint of the railroad, and where the office and shop was located, is the high point of the line. Lambertville was roughly five miles southwest, and most of that five miles was down a grade of perhaps 1 1/2 percent. The feed customers were in Flemington, another five miles or so downhill, but not as drastic as the grade out of Lambertville. No problem at all with empties out of Flemington, to be sure.

The SW-1 had an interesting addition to its appointments in the cab. A bungee cord was used to keep the throttle open on the climb out of Lambertville. Not having notches, the throttle would shake itself closed, if not held open by hand or by the bungee.

Now that the stage is set-

One summer Saturday, PC delivered those 11 cars to Lambertville, and management decided to bring them up with the 148 after the last passenger train tied up. Needless to say, the crews from both passenger trains became a greatly expanded freight crew. The cab was full, and I wound up riding on top of the tender with a few other people.

It had rained that afternoon, but the rain had stopped by the time we went down the hill to Lambertville. Going down, and I"m sure coming back, we wound up crushing quite a few grasshoppers that were sunning themselves on the warm rail. There was a very slight fuel oil leak in the Barco coupling between the engine and tender, dripping on the left rail, and the rain and humidity had caused some of the sand pipes to plug up.

The first mile or so coming back was pretty uneventful, but once past Rt. 29 and on the grade, the slick rail from the oil and grasshoppers began to work against us. Not having fully functioning sanders didn't help, either. (IIRC, the engineer may have been Lloyd Arikinstal, who had run H-9s and K-4s on the PRR. So the problem was not the engineer-)

About a mile and a half south of Ringoes, after much slipping and catching her again, the decision was made to tie down the train and get the SW-1 to help. The air was dumped, many handbrakes were applied, some wheels were chocked, and the 148 went light back to Ringoes.

With the SW-1 in the lead, it's nose up against 148's tender (both running backwards), we tried it again. The diesel had sanded the rails for a few hundred feet before the train, so at least one locomotive started out on good rail.

The two locomotives started the train with no trouble at all. Once we were up to a few miles an hour, I realized that I didn't hear the EMD at all, and not because of stack talk (lots!!) from the 148 either. The engineer of the pup had shut off, which I confirmed by looking at the couplers. The 148 was pulling the 11 loads on her pilot, and pushing her 98 ton "sander" behind her. And, yes, the tender top was the best seat in the house.

So, keep the old gal's sanders working, and the train a reasonable size, and she will get you there. 69 inch drivers are are not that tall, and 28 or 29,000 lbs TE is not all that small a number, either.

I left Miami in 1975 Les, haven't seen them side by side since, but if my fading memory serves, 113 is slightly heavier and has slightly smaller wheels, maybe a slightly larger boiler girth as well. I well recall the Fox trucks on the tender.

She can pull, yes - Uncle Al ran her from Fort Lauderdale to South Campus hauling most of the GCRR stock according to his stories. Wish I had been there for that!

dave

EDM -

Interesting story. Thanks for submitting it. I wonder if there has ever been any documentation (photo or paper) that proves that 148 made it all the way down to Key West for the FEC? I believe that there is at least one photo of number 153 running over the viaducts on the "Line That Went to Sea."

Les

According to J David Conrad's Steam Locomotive directory of America, FEC 113, 148 and 153 are all identical, despite having been built by Schenectady in 1913, Richmond in 1920 and Schenectady in 1922. They are all minimally larger than S&A 750 (FEC #80, Schenectady 1910) and Georgia Northern # 107 (FEC #88, Schenectady 1911), 204,000# to 196,000#, but just the same all 5 share the same tractive effort of 28,300#.

I do seem to think that 113 has a different trailer arrangement than the two later engines.

EDM, 148 was certainly powerful enough the afternoon she took 9 full-loaded CNJ coaches up Middletown Hill on the NY&LB against Sam Freeman's wishes!!! It was one more car than Sam wanted, but we needed the revenue, and knew the old gal could do it!

I hope she has a good future in Colorado; maybe it's far enough away from the bad mojo she's had the last 25+ years....

Howard P.
Blue Comet, NJ

HP,

Were you there for the deadhead move to Beth. for the Black Diamond trip? (During the week-) She took eight Stillwells and a dead Geep from Motown to P'burg on the old Lackawanna. The RFE (title) running would not listen to the other RFE (initials) firing and hook her up. So we limped all the way, stopping for steam several times.

The LV met us with a conductor and one of their more experienced Road Foreman, and of course no diesel. The E-L man told the Valley man that she was a poor steamer.

Once out of Easton, properly hooked up, she was making 45 along the Lehigh River, and the pops were singing. RFE (title) and RFE (initials) had a good laugh about the old girl being a poor steamer.

On Saturday, I was trying to stay awake in one of the coaches, having been hostler (by default) the night before. I awoke as things became very dark (Musconetcong Tunnel), and learned later that 972, leading, was having a problem with the fire and that 148 pretty much pushed her up the hill and pulled the 15 coaches.

Going back to the Blue Comet trip, we did 60 with those same 9 coaches on the CNJ main between Plainfield and RA, after dropping off one of the CNJ execs. I was in the cab, riding ahead of the fireman on some sort of folding sailboat seat, bolted to the cab side. Not an "agreement seat", I'm sure.

Yes, I hope she does well in Colorado. That is one road trip I will have to make, once she is running, just for old times sake. Wish I could go back to 1975 or so-

EDM
Raritanport, NJ

Burlington John wrote, "I came across info on the former Florida East Coast 148 being moved to Colorado for operation on a former D&RG branch to Creede."


Hi John,

The FEC 148 is on a siding in Monte Vista, CO, near the offices of the D&RGHF and Wagon Wheel Route Line.

Cheers, Roger

With all these...."148 pulled "X" amount of cars" stuff...you forget to include one thing that was exemplified by EMD's post....

All those "full 9 car trips" were at speed on good track.

I know that each engine can be different in operations, even if their TE is the same...also the engineer helps in the general equation...but once you get a train rolling at say...50 or 60mph, you're going to have momentum on your side....

The potential of the operations on the Creed Branch are going to be class one, maybe two...which is of course 15 or 25 MPH for Passenger trains...is going to be limitied no matter what for a high drivered 4-6-2.

It's not meant for mountain rails. Personally, I feel a poor choice for the type of operations they are looking into. A 2-8-0 would have by far been a better option.

Just MHO.