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 Post subject: ATSF 4-6-4 #3463
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:12 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:16 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Scranton,PA
Does any one know what's going on with the ATSF 4-6-4 #3463?

Dan

http://steamlocomotive.com/hudson/atsf3463-2.jpg

http://steamlocomotive.com/hudson/atsf3463-1.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 4-6-4 #3463
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:58 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:53 pm
Posts: 347
Location: Casa Grande, Arizona USA
http://www.csrail.org/images/sponsors/get_involved.png

Stay tuned!


Last edited by Trevor Heath on Tue May 22, 2012 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 4-6-4 #3463
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:49 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:53 pm
Posts: 347
Location: Casa Grande, Arizona USA
Loco now appears to be owned by this group

http://www.csrail.org

TH


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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 4-6-4 #3463
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:19 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:31 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Wichita, Kansas
From the tech specs page -
"When done, locomotive 3463 will share only the most fundamental resemblance to the engine it once was."
http://www.csrail.org/index.php/the-train/tech-specs


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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 4-6-4 #3463
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:25 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:03 pm
Posts: 717
http://www1.umn.edu/news/news-releases/ ... 89949.html

Official press release:

Sustainable Rail International, University of Minnesota
Announce Coalition to Develop the World’s Cleanest Passenger Locomotive

New steam engine has the potential to change both 
the rail industry and clean energy research

MINNEAPOLIS - Plans to create the world's first carbon-neutral higher-speed locomotive were announced today by the Coalition for Sustainable Rail (CSR), a collaboration of the University of Minnesota's Institute on the Environment (IonE) and the nonprofit Sustainable Rail International (SRI). CSR draws on the carbon-neutral solid biofuel research expertise of the University of Minnesota and the modern steam mechanical engineering capabilities of SRI to develop the most powerful carbon-neutral locomotive to date.

CSR Project 130 has a simple goal: create the world's cleanest, most powerful passenger locomotive, proving the viability of solid biofuel and modern steam locomotive technology. The Coalition will put its technology to the test by planning to break the world record for steam locomotive speed, reaching 130 miles per hour and demonstrating the viability of this revolutionary, clean transportation technology.

The locomotive will run on torrefied biomass (biocoal), a biofuel created through an energy-efficient processing of cellulosic biomass. Biocoal exhibits the same energy density and material handling properties as coal, but unlike coal, it is carbon neutral, contains no heavy metals, and produces less ash, smoke and volatile off-gases. Since it exhibits such similar characteristics to coal, biocoal has the potential to revolutionize the way the United States generates clean electricity.

"Participation in the Coalition for Sustainable Rail has enabled our team to pursue one of the more exciting and potentially groundbreaking research projects in the history of IonE," said Rod Larkins, Special Projects Director of IonE's Initiative for Renewable Energy and the Environment. "Once perfected, creating the world's first carbon-neutral locomotive will be just the beginning for this technology which, we hope, will later be used for combined heat and power energy in the developing world as well as reducing the United States' dependence on fossil fuels."

Preliminary research shows that CSR's test locomotive will cost less to maintain and less to fuel, and will exhibit greater train handling performance than any diesel-electric locomotives available today. The modern steam locomotive has relied on technology that has been neglected for decades. This is about to change. With the ability to burn biocoal efficiently and without negative impact on the environment, CSR's modern steam locomotive will also exhibit significantly better horsepower output at higher speeds than the current diesel-electric locomotives that pull the majority of passenger trains in the United States.

"This project presents a novel approach to U.S. locomotive development, looking to technologies of the past to inspire solutions for today's sustainability challenges," said SRI president Davidson Ward. "I'm confident that the leading energy researchers we're working with at the University of Minnesota, along with our team of engineers, will be able to bring this technology to the forefront of America's energy and transportation conversations."

In November 2011, SRI acquired a large test bed steam locomotive through a no-cost transfer of ownership from the Great Overland Station museum and education center in Topeka, Kan. This locomotive, built in 1937 for the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railroad as number 3463, will be reconfigured by SRI's locomotive modernization experts, then tested as part of CSR Project 130.

The success of CSR Project 130 has implications that extend beyond the railroad industry, proving the viability of biocoal for use in the developing world. Locomotive engineering on combustion and boiler technologies allows CSR to design power boilers and electric generators on scales from 5 to 5,000 kilowatts. This technology is adaptable for homes in villages of the developing world as well as for use in the U.S. Every dollar spent on engineering support of CSR Project 130 can generate up to three times the benefit in outgrowth technologies to solve energy problems in the United States and around the world.

"When I think of the University of Minnesota's motto, 'Driven to Discover,™' it is precisely the kind of research-based innovation present in CSR Project 130 that sets our school apart," said Don Fosnacht, Ph.D., Director of the University's Center for Applied Research and Technology Development. "The idea of integrating cutting-edge materials science and engineering into a technology base that has not been touched since the 1960s is quite unique, and entering into an industry with as much potential for growth as the U.S. railroad market just adds to CSR Project 130's impact."

In May, SRI completed a cosmetic restoration and stabilization of Locomotive 3463 in Topeka. Plans are to move the locomotive to Minneapolis within the next 12 months. Once moved, CSR will complete the detailed engineering needed to modernize and reconfigure the locomotive.

For more information on the Coalition for Sustainable Rail and CSR Project 130 visit www.csrail.org.

###

Sustainable Rail International:

Sustainable Rail International (SRI), an IRS approved 501(c)(3) and Minnesota nonprofit corporation, is a scientific and educational organization whose mission is to advance biofuel research and production; to research and develop sustainable railroad locomotives; to promulgate associated sustainable technologies; and to support and conduct nonpartisan educational and informational activities to increase awareness of sustainable railroad locomotives. Founded by Rob Mangels, Shaun McMahon, John Rhodes and Davidson Ward, SRI maintains internationally renowned steam locomotive mechanical engineers and U.S. industry professionals among its diverse members.

Institute on the Environment:

The University of Minnesota's Institute on the Environment discovers solutions to Earth's most pressing environmental problems by conducting transformative research, developing the next generation of global leaders and building world-changing partnerships. Learn more online at www.environment.umn.edu.


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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 4-6-4 #3463
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:35 am 

Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 159
Weren't a whole bunch of people on here poo pooing and saying that this would and could never happen? Hmmmm....guess the nay sayers were right yet again.....NOT! Never underestimate the power of dreams, and the ability not to listen to the nay sayers. I am going to donate to these guys at somepoint, in order to put my money where my mouth is.....I seem to remember from the other thread that some other people said if anything actually happened with it that they would donate too. Time to pony up me thinks.....

I wish them the best of luck....see you in Pueblo at 130mph!

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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 4-6-4 #3463
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:44 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:31 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Wichita, Kansas
brettcog2000 wrote:
Weren't a whole bunch of people on here poo pooing and saying that this would and could never happen? Hmmmm....guess the nay sayers were right yet again.....NOT! Never underestimate the power of dreams, and the ability not to listen to the nay sayers. I am going to donate to these guys at somepoint, in order to put my money where my mouth is.....I seem to remember from the other thread that some other people said if anything actually happened with it that they would donate too. Time to pony up me thinks.....

I wish them the best of luck....see you in Pueblo at 130mph!


I'll never say never, but you certainly must realize a website is not an automatic stamp of credibility.
From a preservation standpoint, I'm concerned about the state the only surviving Ripley designed Hudson will be in (if this project comes to fruition).


Last edited by Drew Meek on Tue May 22, 2012 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 4-6-4 #3463
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:46 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2435
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
While I wish them well, I do not believe the press release is a repudiation of the "nay-sayers."

Just because you form an organization, issue a press release, and acquire a locomotive does not indicate success.

Also, I think they are incorrect in stating that it will be the first "carbon neutral" passenger locomotive. The Milwaukee Road's Pacific Extension electrification was powered by hydroelectric power plants on the Missouri and other rivers.

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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 4-6-4 #3463
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:56 am 

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:52 pm
Posts: 74
I say go for it, but I'm worried about the destruction of an irreplaceable locomotive. Surely there must have been another locomotive available for this test. How many Pacifics, Northerns, or Mountains could have fit the bill? Why are they using this one of a kind Hudson? And finally, and I know this may be a mute point, but what kind of museum gives away one of their artifacts to be torn apart and heavily modified? I know my museum would never do that, and thank goodness. But, in all honesty, I have to support them. For the environment, for the nation, and cause it's just so dang cool.

Mike S.

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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 4-6-4 #3463
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:57 am 

Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 159
Drew Meek wrote:
I'll never say never, but you certainly must realize a website is not an automatic stamp of credibility. From a preservation standpoint, I'm concerned about the state the only surviving Ripley designed Hudson will be in (if this project comes to fruition).



Oh believe me, I fully know and understand that a web site only does not a stamp of credibility give. However, the monitary backing of a university resurch program....coupled (haha...that's punny) with aquisition of a locomotive....coupled with an official press release that includes official recognition of 501 (c)3 status....coupled with the preliminary resurch, paperwork, funding (they had to have some sort of funding to get the R&D done....that stuff isn't free).....you get my point. Seems to me that this project has come to fruition.....(I could be wrong....)

My point being that there were people on here who flat out made fun of those of us who thought that this was not only plauseable, but very possible, are now eating shoe leather. That they have gotten this far is much more than they were given credit for ever being able to accomplish. One of my favorites was "Ok everyone. Back to reality. Not gonna happen. Let's not kid ourselves."

Seems to me that the reality is that this is plauseable, and has a very good chance of happening.......

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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 4-6-4 #3463
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Location: San Diego, Ca
Key words in the whole entire article;

"Plans announced."

Doesn't mean a thing.

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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 4-6-4 #3463
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3674
Location: Maine
The photos show a locomotive that somebody tried to tear down for some kind of rehab. From the looks of her, I'd say this is what one could expect when a community no longer wants an eyesore. Just the same, I have doubts that her historical fabric will be removed and preserved without destruction. Those who are cheering this along may be celebrating the destruction of a priceless artifact. It's a bit like like ripping out the wind-up mechanism from a 300 year old clock, and replacing it with an electric quartz motor. "Keeps time better'n ever, and you don't have to wind it!"

I shudder at this proposal.

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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 4-6-4 #3463
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
Posts: 728
Those who are worried about the wanton destruction of an artifact would do well to contact the folks involved directly, and express those concerns. I understand where you're coming from, it's clear how I'd feel if the CNR's last remaining Hudson were proposed as the testbed.

Hopefully, this would encourage them to ensure preservation of all parts removed in the rebuilding, thus simplifying a future restoration to her original state.

Of course (start booing and hissing now), if this project should succeed in its goals and should acheive commercial viability, the locomotive could have greater historical significance in its rebuilt state, as the sire of a new generation of steam passenger power.

An all- new build might possibly be just as economical as a rebuild, and that would become clearer as their design process continues.

Despite the possible negatives, I find this to be a very exciting proposal... I sure wish the research organization I work for had some part in it... but they don't.

Steve Hunter


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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 4-6-4 #3463
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:42 pm 

Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 159
Jeff Lisowski wrote:
Key words in the whole entire article;

"Plans announced."

Doesn't mean a thing.




Maybe you better go back and read it (the article) again.....

Key words in Article.....

"In November 2011, SRI acquired a large test bed steam locomotive"....they all ready own the engine....means they have an engine.....means this is more than a plan.....


"a collaboration of the University of Minnesota's Institute on the Environment (IonE) and the nonprofit Sustainable Rail International (SRI)"....they allready have a partner source that is credable....means they have resurch dolars....and a fund rasing base.......means this is more than a plan......


"Preliminary research shows that CSR's test locomotive will cost less to maintain and less to fuel, and will exhibit greater train handling performance than any diesel-electric locomotives available today".....means that they have been working on this for a while....someone has to do the resurch, and in order to do that you have to have money. Yet again means this is more than a plan......



I could go on, but I won't. All I'm saying is that instead of continuing to poo poo this, how about a little support for them? That might be nice. They have a LONG LONG way to go but, come on just a little. It was said "once they get an engine I'll believe it". Well, they got an engine....and 501 (c)3....and a resurch partner....

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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 4-6-4 #3463
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:06 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Chicago IL
So basicly what you are all saying is that ATSF 4-6-4 #3463 wont ever be the same again and when if it does happen to finish, she wont be like a steam locomotive at all. Plus I am extremly dissapointed on why cant they just restore here as a normal steam locomotive. I mean, cant they test this on a smaller steam locomotive like a 0-4-0 or 0-6-0. That I would appreciate but to test it on a ATSF Hudson, Its absolutly insaine for fans of ATSF steam (I am one of them) I would had like to see it be restored by the San Bernadino Railway Historical Society then to have some college students restore this engine by taking away all of its historical look. This is madness. But I do give them alittle bit of credit for at least restoring this engine back to operating condition. But It would had been better if you keep all or reproduce the parts needed to keep the locomotive's historical looks and functions.

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