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 Post subject: Steam Locomotive 7845 Identification
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:49 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:20 am
Posts: 8
Looking to identify the railway company that owned the 7845 in the photo. Any information as to locomotive class or other pertinent information would be much appreciated. Era of photograph is believed to be WW1.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive 7845 Identification
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:30 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 170
Location: TN
My hunch was NYC looking at the locomotive. I would assume these to be the same but with a later renumbering. Was originally numbered based on subsidiary company. Those versed more in NYC roster can probably point you better.

https://www.railarchive.net/nyccollection/nyc1162.htm
http://rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-s1154s.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive 7845 Identification
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:56 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2302
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Definitely NYC Lines. G-46 or similar class 2-8-0, possibly a P&LE engine.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive 7845 Identification
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:14 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:17 pm
Posts: 550
Location: Ballard, WA
Looks like a Michigan Central locomotive, possibly G6 class. I found MCRR 7846 in Alvin F. Staufer's "New York Central's Early Power Vol. II" page 298. Sorry it's one number off!


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive 7845 Identification
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:27 pm
Posts: 489
Location: Milford,Mass
Hi all
Thanks to Howard P and SR6900 for pointing me in the right direction, now here is your answer
As Howard & SR 6900 said the locomotive is New York Central, here what I have for information on the locomotive.
The engine is Michigan Central, Class G6o cyl 23+32 drivers 63" boiler pressure 200 psi. The locomotive was built by Alco as MC # 7845, renumbered in 1936 to #995 Renumbered again in 1948 to #1129.
Alco builder # 47265, Build May 1910 Retired June 1950 Scrapped the same date.
I found this information in the book Steam Locomotives of the New York Central Lines by William D. Edison and H.V. Vail Jr.
The book was produced by the New York Central System Historical Society in 2002.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive 7845 Identification
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:34 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5815
Pat -

Thanks for the info on NYC 2-8-0 #7845. Although the 7845 was eventually scrapped, it's interesting that another New York Central Class G6 2-8-0 is still in existence. Preserved in a park in Fairview, Oklahoma, the engine was also built by Alco in 1910 for the New York Central & Hudson River as their #2976, becoming NYC #2976 in 1914. The locomotive was sold in 1927 to the Kansas City, Mexico & Orient as their number 66. In 1928, the KCM&O became a part of the Santa Fe and the engine became AT&SF #2522, which is how it is displayed in Fairview. Last photo I saw of the engine, which was donated way back in 1954, showed she wasn't holding up too well to Oklahoma weather.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive 7845 Identification
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:43 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1290
For the record (and in case he tries to follow up the reference) the man's name is EDSON. I understand his work is probably the 'gold standard' of NYC motive-power identification; it is what I would have suggested as an information source had others not already provided the necessary 'stuff'.

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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive 7845 Identification
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 2127
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
The uniform is the model 1917 wool uniform for US soldiers. He's wearing the spiral leggings, and the Eastern European patterned side cap. That would place the uniform from 1918 to well until the 1920s.

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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive 7845 Identification
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:54 am
Posts: 906
Location: Califoothills / Midwest Prairies / PNW
It has not been said yet in this thread, but I am gathering these uniformed operating crews are part of the USRA take-over of railroads starting in Dec 1917.
https://www.american-rails.com/usra.html

And here is the ATSF 2522, on display with two other cars which have received a restiration of sorts.
http://www.rgusrail.com/okatsf2522.html


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive 7845 Identification
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:40 pm 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
o anderson wrote:
It has not been said yet in this thread, but I am gathering these uniformed operating crews are part of the USRA take-over of railroads starting in Dec 1917.
https://www.american-rails.com/usra.html
I doubt that as the parts of the uniform he's wearing wouldnt be commonly found in the US then. Those side caps started in Europe and before the armistice, you'd mostly find soldiers wearing web leggings and campaign ("Smokey bear" type) hats.

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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive 7845 Identification
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:53 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1290
This has me wondering. Weren't there instances (albeit brief) in the post-1917 period when strikes against the railroads were addressed with some kind of Government intervention?

That person on the tender steps is not likely a railroader, with that stance and those shoes...

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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive 7845 Identification
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:49 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5815
o anderson wrote:

And here is the ATSF 2522, on display with two other cars which have received a restoration of sorts.
http://www.rgusrail.com/okatsf2522.html


Olin -

Thanks for the link. ATSF 2522 (NYC #2976) looks better in those shots taken in 2015, than the photo I had seen elsewhere. The two cars with the Consolidation are supposedly a Santa Fe caboose (which I question) and ATSF stock car # 137973 (which is a rather curious looking car). The stock pen replication, looks pretty good though!

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive 7845 Identification
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:05 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
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Overmod wrote:

That person on the tender steps is not likely a railroader, with that stance and those shoes...

I had the same thought when I first saw the photo, "something's wrong here." It almost looks posed with actors.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive 7845 Identification
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:14 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5815
PMC wrote:
Overmod wrote:

That person on the tender steps is not likely a railroader, with that stance and those shoes...

I had the same thought when I first saw the photo, "something's wrong here." It almost looks posed with actors.


PMC - I figured it was just a soldier getting his photo taken by a friend using a rudimentary World War 1 type camera. Fireman is obviously waiting for the road to clear ahead. When the signal clears, the 2-8-0 will be off, and the soldier will step down from the steps. He's probably not involved with the engine (or train) at all.

BTW, can anyone make out the railroad initials on the drop-bottom gondola over on the next track?

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive 7845 Identification
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:20 am
Posts: 8
Foremost allow me to extend my appreciation to all who have contributed to identifying this locomotive and the railway company involved. This was most helpful.

Those that have expressed ideas that this is probably not a uniform from the USA are more than likely correct as this we believe is a British uniform. Perhaps this photo was taken on Michigan Central lines in Ontario, Canada? We could not confirm this as a plausibility until the knowledgeable contributors identified this as a Michigan Central locomotive, something that we had difficulty in doing. The British military I understand, did have a presence in Canada during the first world war facilitating military training and organisation.

A descendant of the soldier in the photograph has always wondered where this was taken, which railway was represented and what locomotive type this was. He by the way, is an ardent railway enthusiast and preservation supporter today in the UK.


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