Unless things have drasticly changed with Mr. Kepner I really do not believe that any locomotive in his collection has or will be sold. But then again things do change.I worked on the SMV 100 and my late father worked on her at the SMV. Both of us worked for the WHite Mountain Scenic and Myself at the Heber Creeper along with the Sierra 36.Sierra 34 is probably the only engine in pristine shape in Jamestown from his collection.The only one that was not moved to his property.The rest are in pretty deplorable shape as you can imagine sitting out in the elements.I know that offers have been made to purchase both the sierra 36 and the 34 as well as well as former smv 100 but efforts all fell through. I knew Mr. Kepner was famous for saying that steam locomotives should never be operated because it distroys them? Need I say more? If he sells any of his collecion I will believe it when I see it.

Gentlemen:

In all due fairness to Mr. Kepner...at least the "collection" has survived the torch to this point. As well, "Loggerhogger", Mr. Martin Hansen, is always willing to answer legitimate inquires as to the availability of Mr. Kepner's collection.

I too, would like to see all of them restored and operating...but as of this date, I have yet to win any lottery!
In the meantime, I'm glad they still exist, even in a disassembled state!

As to personal preferences...#1 would be Sierra #38!

In all fairness to any other potential preservationists: Who decides what constitutes a "legitimate inquiry"? Simple: The person with the toys.

Some possible examples:
A state-run museum like Jamestown 1897 or the California State RR Museum (secure future, but NO $$ to spare)
A private operation with enough cash (say, Strasburg or Napa Valley Wine Train)
Anybody with at least a million dollars cash--and then the price goes up to two million, then three. (I've seen that "moving target" game played out a couple of times elsewhere, with no preservation as a result.)

The fact that we "serious" rail preservationists have not heard even any allegations of any "serious efforts" (fundraising, lobbying, etc.) to rescue a steamer from this "collection" means one of a couple possibilities:
*Negotiations are proceeding in extreme secrecy (yes, really--I never thought anyone would get the West Va. Northern steamers out of Madley, Pa. either......);
*Nobody knows about these locomotives (relativelt speaking, yes, but....);
*The engines are so far "gone" or "clapped out" that they're not worth preserving (but there's always static display);
*The price, and/or any conditions of sale, are too high.

It's been reported that Hansen has complained that anyone who approaches the collection wants a loco donated to them free. I find it hard to believe that nobody has attempted to sit down and really negotiate a fair sale transaction, which leaves open a couple other possibilities: Unreasonable terms/prices, a stubborn or inaccessible owner/agent, or simply that there's no one that "needs" any of these locos, or at least wants one and has cash to burn.

As always, "the truth" probably lies somewhere in the middle.

If anyone has any serious questions about the Kepner Collection I will be glad to answer them.

Martin

Serious questions:

Have there been any overtures of a credible/serious nature to acquire any particular locomotive from the collection for historic-preservation objectives (such as returning a Sierra locomotive to the Sierra RR/Jamestown)?

If so, are you at liberty to discuss why said overtures were either rejected or have not proceeded yet?

What possible serious interest could you have in what happens with the Kepner collection? And yes, it is a collection, even tho it may not fit your narrow view of what a collection is.

What possible business is it of yours "why said overtures were either rejected or have not proceeded yet"?

This is just another tiresome example of your constant ego-inflating (is there no limit?) postings and your continuing negative comments about some unfortunate individual or group who doesn't meet your high standards.

I hope Martin Hansen completely ignores your questions. In fact, I wish this whole group would put you in a "time out" for awhile. Good God, man, isn't there more to life than always sticking your nose in other people's affairs???

Jim Tatum.

It's still a fair question, whether or not it's any of "our business" or not, as long as there's any hint of their being made available to "serious" folks. It's truly none of our business once we confirm that they've all been scrapped, or that the owner intends to be buried with them, or the like. Finding out on what basis someone presenting himself as a "gatekeeper" to inquiry about the collection considers an inquiry "serious" would save a whole lot of time--both his and ours.

It's legitimate to ask whether said inquiry be written on the letterhead of a 501(c)3 non-profit, from someone who has been "listed" in the Steam Passenger Service Directory or its successor for at least 20 years, or simply attached to a cashier's check for six figures as a deposit.

It doesn't matter for the fate of the equipment, insofar as it's still theirs to control and keep or dispose of, as long as they own or pay rent on the property on which the locos/their parts sit, don't have to deal with zoning, etc. And establishing the proper terms in question does save a LOT of wasted time, dreams, efforts, fundraising, etc.

John Larkin of Escanaba & Lake Superior/Baldwins fame has gained a LOT of peace and quiet with the news that he won't even entertain ANY offers--serious or no--for any of his "collection" until he is ready. Saying "serious offers only" only invites curiosity and speculation.

Friends,

Please be nice and have a look at the guidelines.

Tom Gears
Moderator

Regardless of how the questions were written, let me share some information.

Over the past 25 years there have been only a handful of serious iquiries regarding purchasing some of the locomotives.

Over the last 10 years, several cars in the collection have been sold. 2 of them are in passenger service in Oregon now and the others are under restoration. The SP&S RPO car was sold to a museum in Oregon and they gutted the RPO section for display and it is preserved.

Only one Steam locomotive has been sold from the collection and it is operable today. Of the inquiries on the other engines, they generally fall into 2 classes. 1. Requests from groups for donations and 2. Offers to buy at extremely low prices. Most of these offers come from folks who would "love to see a locmotive in a park in thier town". These people usually have no idea what it takes to move the locomotive let alone what it takes to preseve one.

There have been 2 credible offers to buy locomotives from groups offering a fair price. Fred made a counter offer to one group and has not responded to the other offer because of past dealings with the organization making the offer.

For the time being, the collection is likely to stay intact. I refer on each offer as it is recieved to Fred regardless of its merit and it is up to Fred what to do with it.

These engines are privately owned and a small fortune has been spent (literally) in saving and moving them and storing them. It is up to thier owner what he does with the collection both short term and long term. Fred knows there will come a day that the collection will be liquidated. My job is to be ready to facilitate that process when Fred says he is ready.

Martin

I will not add fuel to the fire, nor speculate on any of the above...but despite the occasional disagreements that surface here on this topic, at heart I'd like to believe that people inquiring about these locomotives have (ultimately) good intentions at heart, i.e. not wanting another Paulson Spence or Richard Jensen scenario.

It takes two to tango. I just hope that wisdom of the ages and recent steam locomotive sales are reflected on the side of the seller, if anyone ever shows up serious to approach the man. Around the time of the 261 debacle, we spent much time talking about the value of a steam locomotive.

In my honest opinion, there is an inverse function of cost versus size. The smaller the engine is, the more valuable it is. This is because it costs less to move it, takes less materials, and labor to restore it, and usually it goes up on the "cute" factor which means some wealthy person might actually want one.

Complexity of rebuild and completeness of the locomotive will also drive down the cost.

If you have a rare engine, you might be able to name your price, but only to the point someone is dying (perhaps literally) to have it. A windfall of cash from a donor's estate to IRM, at the same time a one of a kind Illinois Central Forney locomotive becoming available, led to the group's most expensive steam locomotive purchase. I see events like that becoming less likely in the future, and the factors previously mentioned will be more at play.

You probably can count the moneyed private locomotive collectors (like the late Nelson F. Blount) on one hand, and they can get engines from a lot of sources. Non-profit museums are always going to be doing things on the cheap, and it will be a matter if the owner will settle for a price, given the best outcome for the engine.

Let's hope Kepner is willing to dance if any partner shows up. Sometimes at the square dance you can have a good time even if the other person ain't the prettiest.

I met Fred once in the 1990s when he was preparing Santa Maria Valley 100 and Sierra 36 for shipment out of Ogden, Utah (they'd been stored at the old SP shops from about 1988 onward). I remember that he was a really nice guy, and we had an interesting conversation about the engines. This was a good lesson for me: don't believe everything you hear. Fred wasn't a "nut job" like I'd been told by other folks. He has a genuine love for his engines and cares about their preservation. Look at the money he's spent to move them to a secure location.

When I started working at the the Heber Valley Railroad in 1995 I remember that Craig Drury asked about purchasing Santa Maria Valley 100, because Heber needed a second locomotive and Craig really loved 100. Fred was willing to sell or lease it to Heber, and the price was fair, but the amount was more than the railroad could afford at the time. Oh well....

Jeff Terry

Jeff Terry,
did he mention why he won't sell any of them?!?!?!? He owes it to them to sell them to where they belong. Take the Sierra locomotives for example. ALL of them(except #38, no room) should return to Railtown 1897 for rebuilds and proper storage. All of them are not in as good of condition as they would be at Railtown. If he truly loves them, he must let them go. Sorry if I have a big mouth right here, but I'm only voicing what everyone thinks. Railtown, after almost 30 years, still has a standing offer to re-purchase #34 from Fred, that shows he doesn't want to sell.

Mike

No.

Review the long thread on B&LE 643, especially the part from me about how it's still a free country.

The Sierra RR/ Jamestown 1897 SHOULD be the best/only place for these locos to go. Seriously, may several plagues come down upon anyone who thinks/acts otherwise. But the only reason we're even having this conversation is because of the efforts/money/insanity of Fred Kepner and his "heirs." Just because it's a former Sierra locomotive and there's a state-sponsored excursion RR park on the former Sierra does NOT make a former Sierra steamer worth $100 million. But nor does it mean the heirs are obligated to donate it to the state, either.

This sounds just like the discussion over on the BL&E 643 page, but times "X", with "X" being the number of locomotives held by Mr. Kepner. Lots of words here folks, lots of hot air that will not change a thing in the real world. The owners of this iron have their own agenda that is mostly about owning locomotives just for the pleasure of owning them. These folks are not motivated by history or operation, only by the nostalgia factor,which, apparently, is stronger than the strongest glue.