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 Post subject: Amendment to ban any stimulus benefits for museums
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:15 am
Posts: 170
Received this in an email today:

Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) has introduced an amendment to prohibit any funds in the economic stimulus bill from going to museums.

The language of the amendment, (Amendment No. 175, as filed) is, "None of the amounts appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used for any casino or other gambling establishment, aquarium, zoo, golf course, swimming pool, stadium, community park, museum, theater, arts center, or highway beautification project, including renovation, remodeling, construction, salaries, furniture, zero-gravity chairs, big screen televisions, beautification, rotating pastel lights, and dry heat saunas."

Please contact the Senators for your state and tell them to vote no. The amendment is obviously designed to make museums and the like appear to be completely frivolous. Not sure what this Senator's museum experiences have been but apparently they were not positive. Investing in a successful museum (or theater or aquarium or zoo) is investing in community.

--Richard


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 Post subject: Re: Amendment to ban any stimulus benefits for museums
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:51 pm
Posts: 148
I believe Sen. Coburn is noted for his opposition to pork from either party. I suspect that his amendment is a poke at the current Senate Majority Leader who declines to drop his project, the so called "mob museum" about the early history of Las Vegas gambling.

Alex Huff


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 Post subject: Re: Amendment to ban any stimulus benefits for museums
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:24 pm 

Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 4:05 pm
Posts: 49
I believe you are right Alex. Pelosi loaded the bill with things that have not gotten approval in the past and should be considered in a budget or appropriations bill, not a stimulus bill. Reid has simply added his favorite pork, a thug museum in Nevada. As a member of Congress this bill is a way to get your favorite pork approved, because the stimulus money is needed.

You are welcome to believe this bill will improve the economy and bring back jobs, then the programs will terminate, and everything will be ok again. That is your perogative. BTW, if you believe that statement, I know of several acres nearby that are available, cheap. Just be sure and bring lots of bribe money for county officials so you can for sure build on the land, and several water pumps, cause most of the year the land is a marsh.

My apologies in advance if I have offended anyone. I do not think any appropriation, even for a railroad museums should be tacked onto the bill currently being considered, and urgently needed (according to Mr. Obama).

dan


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 Post subject: Re: Amendment to ban any stimulus benefits for museums
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:42 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1543
Yes if I were a museum, I would avoid this stimulus money like the plague.


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 Post subject: NO funding for museums - approved by Senate
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:15 am
Posts: 170
Well it appears to be a done deal. The Senate had voted to adopt an amendment that strips additional funding for the NEA and anything else that helps a museum or arts group. There's a slim chance it will be changed when reconciled with the House version, but it's unlikely.

Capital is capital. A museum capital facility puts people to work and that - whether you agree it achieves the desired goal of fixing the economy or not - is the essence of stimulus. In the case of the crossing safety improvements we got to a short list, it would also have improved safety.

What at times seems to be far too evident on this board and other railfan lists is political bias that appears to get in the way of furthering the goals of railway preservation and history. Preservation is not red or blue, conservative or liberal. It is using hard work, tenacity and creativity to apply the available resources to fix the engine, preserve the coach, repair the track, attract new audiences or whatever is responsive to the host organization's mission.

We've seen bailouts of banks and auto companies, rescues for mortgages that should not have been approved in the first place, and astounding salaries for their managers that if even one were applied to my institution's endowment could keep all our facilities operating indefinitely. Yet FEMA won't repair a flood-damaged museum except if the museum is under financial duress.

Railroad museums have huge capital needs - even our local art museum leaders wince when they hear some of the numbers. If there is government money out there that can be used to further a museum's mission, any prudent director or development officer had better be pursuing it. If they are not, they probably should be replaced. (This applies to private foundation money too, but it is getting pretty scarce.)

Truck loads of cash and some prudent management will work wonders at nearly any railroad museum that has at least the nucleus of a representative collection. Getting the cash requires some good planning, but it also requires a level playing field.

Please help railroad preservation by supporting initiatives that have even a glimmer of hope of funding any museum. Otherwise we will all be left in the dust with no way to fund our vision.

--Richard


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 Post subject: Re: Amendment to ban any stimulus benefits for museums
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:24 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2603
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Well, it's a moratorium on museum funding from this batch of funds. This wasn't the first batch, and depending on what happens, this may not be the last. The fact that museums (and others) were locked out may make a future appeal more sympathetic in the eyes of Congress.

Of course, this moratorium has no effect whatsoever on the existing funding sources available, such as crossing funds, whatever flavor of TEA they're serving this year, state funding, and of course the civic sector. Money shows up from the unlikeliest of places when museums do a great job. I can't say the same for museums that don't, or that have no plan.... or that don't pursue the money.

Are you writing grant proposals tailored to suit what they are trying to do with the stimulus package?


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 Post subject: Re: Amendment to ban any stimulus benefits for museums
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:40 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2561
Location: Strasburg, PA
WesternStar wrote:
Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) has introduced an amendment to prohibit any funds in the economic stimulus bill from going to museums.


It’s just as well. If we all accepted stimulus money to help with our restorations, we would all then have to limit our salaries to $500,000 per year. And who wants to do that?


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 Post subject: Re: Amendment to ban any stimulus benefits for museums
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:05 am 

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 10:27 am
Posts: 223
Location: New Haven Ct area
Maybe it is a little to political of an observation here, but if we remember what got us into this current mess, wasn't it people borrowing more money than they ever could have dreamed of paying back to the banks, for homes they never should have owned in the first place?

Now it seems that the government's response to this is to try to borrow more money than it can really afford to pay off from other countries in order to get us out of this mess!!!! The whole thing kind of seems stupid to me.

As for railroad museums as a railroad enthusiast I want to see them obtain as much funding as possible wherever they can, but as a citizen of this country the thought of the government going on a reckless spendfest plopping money into anyone's hand who begs loud enough just doesn't seem right to me right now.

I know working in heavy industry right now, the same type that tends to appeal to railroad enthusiasts, if it weren't for the banks falling flat on their faces I thought that this past July was one of the most exciting times, the USA was cranking out tons of steel, and aluminum again. Power plants, heavy equipment, mining, railroads were going full tilt and getting stronger. Railroads were hiring, machinists and engineers seemed to be in quite high demand. Things were great. Now the finance system has broken down and everyone is feeling it. They say this whole thing is a problem with banks losses on housing. If you ask me, they should fix the housing system where the root of the problem is, get the banks back on their feet and let everyone else recover around it.

Adam


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 Post subject: Re: Amendment to ban any stimulus benefits for museums
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:15 am
Posts: 170
Quote:
It’s just as well. If we all accepted stimulus money to help with our restorations, we would all then have to limit our salaries to $500,000 per year. And who wants to do that?


So that's why we have trouble paying competitive salaries in the rest of the country!

Regarding other funding, there are always other sources but few have been as attractive to use for pure bricks and mortar as the stimulus.

Take grade crossing improvement funds. In the last major transportation bill, the Federal government removed many of the designations from the funding allowing the States to determine where best to spend it. Outside of improving some Amtrak corridors, many States have decided not to designate any Federal funds for grade crossing improvement.

Now take a look at NEH and IMLS funding the last few years. There is very little bricks and mortar funding available with the exception of the NEH Challenge grants. And to say that one of those is difficult to get is an understatement because the program has so little funding compared to the needs of museums across the country.

Want to digitize your library collection? You'll have better luck there but you can't use the funding to build a library or vault.

I'm always looking for new ideas to try so if any of you have either received funds from another source or have heard of potential museum eligibility, I'd like to hear from you!

Thank you to everyone who is taking this seriously - the mentality that proposed and approved the stimulus amendment is a very serious threat to museums of all types - railroad, art, history, air, old house, military, craft, or whatever.

--Richard


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 Post subject: ADMIN: Re: Amendment to ban any stimulus benefits for museum
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:31 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:50 am
Posts: 489
Location: Columbia, MD
Ladies & Gentlemen:

I locked this topic two days ago, because I did not like the political discussion that was going on. However, I received two PM's of protest which pointed out that most rail museums are looking for government grants, and that this type of legislation is bad for the preservation movement. The two writers both said that there had been no flaming in the thread.

After a careful review of the thread, I decided that they were right, and I have therefore unlocked the topic. It will stay unlocked as long as no flaming starts.

I apologize for this, but I have long since learned that when I am wrong, the best thing to do is to admit it, and accept the consequences.

Mea culpa,
Kevin Gillespie
Moderator
RYPN


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 Post subject: Re: Amendment to ban any stimulus benefits for museums
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6399
Location: southeastern USA
adammil1 wrote:
Maybe it is a little to political of an observation here, but if we remember what got us into this current mess, wasn't it people borrowing more money than they ever could have dreamed of paying back to the banks, for homes they never should have owned in the first place? Adam


This was a symptom, not the disease - but one which affected many people in a very personal, and easily understandable way. It therefore made a real "hook" for the news media, who would much rather deal with emotionally charged, simplistic situations to gain market share than to delve into the dull and complex series of events over the past century or so which combined to create it - potentially catalyzed by an idealogical administration given a lot of leeway. Can't blame them.

I found it very interesting to hear Greenspan admit that free market capitalism didn't do what the theorists (including himself)assumed it would. Either we don't have real free market capitalism, or theory and reality don't coincide, or both and then some. Really smart economists will still be working on this in another few generations.

It will be telling to see how things will change - and to what extent they will be allowed to during the next few years. I see a lot of politics as usual, a bit of innovation, and no expressed political will to make substantive systenic changes to the system or to the structure of our society and related national policy. Mandating cars that get higher fuel economy is great, but presupposes we continue to evolve in the suburban sprawl model, as one example, rather than redefine our communities along with related transportation systems. Long distance trucking can be easily made obsolete by increasing the capacity of our rail networks to move all freight to within a short haul of its destination - haven't seen a politician actually make that argument or proposal.

Unless a lot of this thinking changes and politicians stop being political and start being practical, what we will probably get is a half effort at best, but it will probably be better than nothing. Enough to make any real difference is anybody's guess.

Preservation related content: IF we were to redefine our communities along more European lines, along with our economies and style of consumption, would we then also be more supportive of rail preservation (as well as other cultural activities) due to sociological changes which make us more interdependent and less individually reliant (or for other societal reasons)? Have we made geography our destiny in such ways as to prevent it?

dave

_________________
“God, the beautiful racket of it all: the sighing and hissing, the rattle and clack of the cars over the rails. These were the sounds that made America the greatest country on earth." Jonathan Evison


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 Post subject: Re: Amendment to ban any stimulus benefits for museums
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:27 pm 

Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 4:05 pm
Posts: 49
It therefore made a real "hook" for the news media, who would much rather deal with emotionally charged, simplistic situations to gain market share than to delve into the dull and complex series of events over the past century or so which combined to create it - potentially catalyzed by an idealogical administration given a lot of leeway. Can't blame them.

I agree dave, except you paragraph above needs to be expanded to correctly say:

potentially catalyzed by ad idealogical administration and Congress, given a lot of leeway.

dan


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 Post subject: Re: Amendment to ban any stimulus benefits for museums
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:15 am
Posts: 170
We have a proud tradition in this country of supporting museums with both private and public funds. The fact remains that nearly every major facility we have today is either a governmental agency or (if private non profit) it received a not insignificant contribution from the tax payer, either through a competitive grant program or by a direct appropriation from a legislative body. (There are exceptions of course but they are generally institutions that were started with funding from one family or individual and have an endowment to cover at least some of their operating expenses.)

Here are two questions that come to mind (perhaps you have others):
1) What can we do to protect or even increase government support for arts and heritage? (Please make no mistake that it is all or nothing because rail preservation by itself probably won't even get you a meeting with one of your Senators.)
2) How can rail preservation be more competitive in the programs that are out there now?

Here are some partial answers from our experiences but we have far too many rejection letters in our files indicating we still have lots to learn so please add in your views too:
1) Contact your Senators and Congressman. If they don't hear from you, they will assume you are not affected. Be a part of any local or national advocacy groups whether it be your local arts/heritage council or the AAM and when they ask you to write a letter, please do it. When you get a grant, get as much publiity as possible and emphasize the economic benefits your institution and - if applicable - the project brings to your community.
2) Read the guidelines and follow them. If you don't fit the guidelines, see if your project can be modified slightly to fit. If it can't or won't, please don't apply. And if you do not like/will not follow the guidelines or rules of a successful award, also don't apply. You are wasting your effort and making rail preservation come across as a little loony. Apply for the small programs such as MAP that are almost a certainty to get. The report they generate adds credibility to larger requests. Apply for any designations or recognition for your collection or your programs. For instance, an object in your collection that is listed on the National Register is probably easier to fund that one that is not, but you will have to follow the Secretary of the Interior Standards for the Treatment of Historic Properties so, like I mentioned before, if you don't agree with those standards, don't apply for grant that requires them.

Ok, now it is someone else's turn to add some ideas.

-Richard


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 Post subject: Re: Amendment to ban any stimulus benefits for museums
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:49 pm 

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 10:27 am
Posts: 223
Location: New Haven Ct area
Here's a question I have to ask, on this form that is less political and more oriented to the purpose of this forum. What level of government spending should be placed on museums, and preservation? If I ruled the country we would have a small limited government that kept its nose out of most everyone else's business, no bridges to no where, nor money for mob museums. But we would funded tons of steam railroad museums. However in reality my own personal love for railroads would be considered pork by many other people out there, and I must say rightfully so.

From my perspective as one who is 22yrs old, we have seen since the 1980's both parties spending record amounts of money. I heard on the news the other day that it took from George Washington to Jimmy Carter for the total spending of the US government to amount to $800Billion. Now in a period of 14days of senate and congressional debate we are planning on plucking that down in one whim of spending!!!! How much money can we borrow from China before they tell us no! Everyone always says look at the debt we are leaving to future generations and our children. Well I hate to say it but it may not be debt we are leaving to future generations (unless you plan on dieing with in the next 10yrs) but rather our generation who bears the burden of this!

I think our government needs to go on a massive spending diet which will mean cutting back pork at all corners does that mean that railroad museums go too with it? What is pork? Are railroad museums pork?

I do think that the government should give some level of grants to some some historic places including steam railroads, as well as some limited grants to the arts. But should every museum, preservation group, art group, etc... who comes asking for money get it in a time when we are spending far too much far too fast with far too few questions asked. How do we draw the line? Even amongst ourselves, if historic rail preservation was told it was getting X amount of money to be spread amongst every museum in the country how would we decide whose project gets funds?

The biggest thing that drives me nuts in this whole thing is when I think it was a senator from NY said we shouldn't squabble over a few million here or there. While everyone is angry about the CEO's getting a few million these guys in Washington are tossing around $100million lumps of money as if it is chump change!!! When the government decides to hand out $800billion (I think that amounts to something like $3,000 from each and everyone of us) a lot of people step in line to ask for it. Who should/shouldn't get that money?

Adam


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 Post subject: Re: Amendment to ban any stimulus benefits for museums
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:04 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:04 am
Posts: 665
Location: Northeast Ohio
What I find disturbing is that the Coburn amendment passed by a wide margin. That indicates to me that either museums in general have done a poor job of educating our elected officials of their importance or we are not as important of a part of our country as we would like to think we are. A museum, especially the state supported museums do hire staff and is just as deserving of stimulus money as some of the other proposed recipients of the funding.


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