Hey Smokebox (and others)
I rode the post-Railfair '91 excursion with the 2472 and 4449 doubleheader. If I remember right, we had a nine-car all daylight consist (except for the GGRM's car attached to the rear which was removed in Oakland). What happened to this beautiful train set?

benquirkc@yahoo.com

The cars that made up the Railfair '91 excursion, as well as the all-Daylight consist for the World's Fair Daylight in 1984, were all owned by different organizations. For example SP coach #2397, which was used on both trips, is owned by the Pacific Railroad Society and is currently in storage at the Golden Gate Railroad Museum in San Francisco. GGRM also has their own Daylight-painted coach #293, but I'm not sure if that car was used on either of the above trains. The Daylight-painted observation car from the '84 trip, Appekunny Mountain, was last reported to be owned by the California Northern railroad. It is not an SP car- it was originally built for the Great Northern. The Pacific Northwest Chapter of the NRHS has a Daylight-painted ex-GN coach #6800, and ex-SP combine #3300 in Daylight colors which was used on the '84 train. Not sure if these cars were used on the '91 excursion.

> Hey Smokebox (and others)
> I rode the post-Railfair '91 excursion with
> the 2472 and 4449 doubleheader. If I
> remember right, we had a nine-car all
> daylight consist (except for the GGRM's car
> attached to the rear which was removed in
> Oakland). What happened to this beautiful
> train set?


davew833@yahoo.com

I'm not sure if it was part of the trains you refer to but the Amber Trail is in Daylight colors and in the Bay Area. It was part of a train pulled by SP4449.
It is now for sale.

I recently saw two cars in "Daylight" at the Pacific Lumber Company in Scotia, California. It was in passing so I didn't get numbers etc.

Amber Trail
wyld@sbcglobal.net

Maybe I should clarify...
Why did the 4449 use to pull an all daylight consist but now is unable to?

> I'm not sure if it was part of the trains
> you refer to but the Amber Trail is in
> Daylight colors and in the Bay Area. It was
> part of a train pulled by SP4449.
> It is now for sale.

> I recently saw two cars in
> "Daylight" at the Pacific Lumber
> Company in Scotia, California. It was in
> passing so I didn't get numbers etc.


benquirkc@yahoo.com

> For example SP coach #2397,
> which was used on both trips, is owned by
> the Pacific Railroad Society and is
> currently in storage at the Golden Gate
> Railroad Museum in San Francisco. GGRM also
> has their own Daylight-painted coach #293,
> but I'm not sure if that car was used on
> either of the above trains.

Pacific Railroad Society #2397 is now located in Southern California. This car was built for service on the "Shasta Daylight." The PRS also named the car "Shasta Springs."

The 293 at the Golden Gate Railroad Museum was originally SP #2386. When the SP reassigned it to company (non-revenue) service it was given #293. This car was built in 1954.

The PRS website says that their car was on the 1984 train to New Orleans. The GGRM site does not give any such information about #293.

Brian Norden

bnorden49@earthlink.net

Because the owner of #4449 (the City of Portland) and the maintainers of #4449 (Doyle & Co.) don't own the cars that were used in the all-Daylight consists. They're scattered all over the nation and in various states of repair. It's a major logistical and financial headache to round up matched cars owned by many different organizations, get them all to the same place at the same time, AND make sure they're all mechanically sound and operational. The World's Fair Daylight in '84 had financial backing from SP and other sponsors to do it, and there were still problems (Non-working A/C in some cars, worn out interior fixtures, etc.) with some of the cars.

The fact is, when excursions are planned, the organizers tend to look for cars that are available nearby, roadworthy, and economical to rent or lease, before they worry about whether the paint matches. Most public excursion riders are more concerned about whether the restrooms and the A/C work than what the car looks like on the outside.

Union Pacific tends to make everyone else look inferior with their matched consist of pristine excursion cars for steam trips, but with major corporate financial support of the excursion fleet, UP is the exception and not the rule.

> Maybe I should clarify...
> Why did the 4449 use to pull an all daylight
> consist but now is unable to?


davew833@yahoo.com

If I recall, some of the World's Fair Daylight cars were owned by Great Western Tours and some were on the Sierra RR in the late 1970's. They went up the Eureka Southern and were used on the North Coast Daylight excursions from Willits to Eureka in the mid to late 1980's. I recall talking to Dick Reynolds who was one of the partners in GWT when he was manager of the Nevada Northern Ry Museum in 1987 or so. He was very much annoyed at this former partner who had declared bankruptcy and his train of Daylight cars had been sold and scattered to the winds.

earlk489@hotmail.com

Just curious if an authentic Daylight consist (not just Daylight-painted) is still possible? I know some of the cars still exist, but is there enough for a full train? And didn't most of these cars have different, friction-bearing trucks in the steam era, that were replaced in rebuilding in the late-1950s?

bobyar2001@yahoo.com

> Just curious if an authentic Daylight
> consist (not just Daylight-painted) is still
> possible? I know some of the cars still
> exist, but is there enough for a full train?
> And didn't most of these cars have
> different, friction-bearing trucks in the
> steam era, that were replaced in rebuilding
> in the late-1950s?

If I remember correctly, the combine on the '84 New Orleans trip was an original Daylight car that had been rebuilt without fluted sides.

The California Western had a pair of articulated coaches (as in 2 sets). One fluted sided the other not. One set went to the San Pedro Southwestern in Benson, AZ. Don't know what happend to the pass equipment when the SPSW stopped running passenger trains.

earlk489@hotmail.com

Nine of the cars in the "Louisiana World's Fair Daylight" were ex-SP cars--mostly "Shasta Daylight" cars.
The crew car was an original "Daylight" car from 1936-37; it was originally a baggage-chair car.
I have a copy of the entire roster of Sierra Western equipment leased through Great Western Tours.

> Hey Smokebox (and others)
> I rode the post-Railfair '91 excursion with
> the 2472 and 4449 doubleheader. If I
> remember right, we had a nine-car all
> daylight consist (except for the GGRM's car
> attached to the rear which was removed in
> Oakland). What happened to this beautiful
> train set?


denmeg_hogan@msn.com

An all Daylight train could be possible, should someone come up with the cubic dollars to make it happen.

The combine, owned by the PNWC, NRHS, is the 3300, the very first Daylight painted car. It's currently out of service, and it's not known if it's service life is over. It was involved in a "rear-ender", and it's vestibule end was totaled. I'm not sure about the condition of the frame.

Doyle used to own an articulated set, but it was totaled while on lease. Doyle had secured one other remaining combine, but it was vadalized to the point it was totaled.

NRM owns two original Daylight cars. One of them is the last remaining SP roundend observation car.

All of these cars ride on "Napolean" (sp?) trucks. I think they were always roller bearing. The bearing boxes are shapped like Napoleans hat, hence the name. The big question is are they AMTRAK compliant? I've heard that they're not.

When the day comes that we get a big enough, secure pole barn, I'm sure a rebuilding of "the great fleet" could occur. Until then, we have no where to store, or work on a train set.

Smokebox

If I am thinking of the same set of articulated SP coaches then the Doyle car is still around.

I recall seeing a photo of SP equipment operating on the Central Montana Railroad in the mid 90's. This may have been his car. At about the same time, a SP articulated coach popped up at the Montana Rail Link Laurel (Montana) yard with major draft gear damage (reportedly they kicked the car but couldn't access the handbrake after the car was in motion). The car was brought to Missoula MT where it lanquished for over 6 months pending disposition. MRL acquired the car through the insurance settlement with the owner. Later in about 1998, the car was forwarded to the Livingston Rebuild Center, which rebuilt the damage (including some damage to the center sill(?)). The car then went to Coast Engine and Machine where it sat for another year before being repainted into MRL colors. The car is now in Missoula, the interior stripped, pending use in the MRL business car fleet.

Since there are not too many SP articulated cars out there, I would surmise it was Doyle McCormick's but I don't have my notes handy to confirm this.

Smokebox wrote

> Doyle used to own an articulated set, but it
> was totaled while on lease. Doyle had
> secured one other remaining combine, but it
> was vadalized to the point it was totaled.

> NRM owns two original Daylight cars. One of
> them is the last remaining SP roundend
> observation car.

> All of these cars ride on
> "Napolean" (sp?) trucks. I think
> they were always roller bearing. The bearing
> boxes are shapped like Napoleans hat, hence
> the name. The big question is are they
> AMTRAK compliant? I've heard that they're
> not.

> When the day comes that we get a big enough,
> secure pole barn, I'm sure a rebuilding of
> "the great fleet" could occur.
> Until then, we have no where to store, or
> work on a train set.

> Smokebox


mikefrommontana@juno.com

> The California Western had a pair of
> articulated coaches (as in 2 sets). One
> fluted sided the other not. One set went to
> the San Pedro Southwestern in Benson, AZ.
> Don't know what happend to the pass
> equipment when the SPSW stopped running
> passenger trains.

I believe that the San Pedro Southwestern had two articulated sets. Some windows were replaced with sliders to avoid having to keep the AC working.

BN

bnorden49@earthlink.net

There are two pairs of SP articulated coaches in service as a rolling restaurant out of Traverse City, Michigan, in combination with a lightweight diner and two F-units. These coaches may have come off the Algoma Central. They have been modified inside to accommodate tables, and appear to have been resided.

Aarne H. Frobom

froboma@mdot.state.mi.us

At one time, both Algoma Central and California Western had passenger cars from the 1937-era SP "Daylight" and T&NO "Sunbeam." You'd have to research the cars further to determine which.

> There are two pairs of SP articulated
> coaches in service as a rolling restaurant
> out of Traverse City, Michigan, in
> combination with a lightweight diner and two
> F-units. These coaches may have come off the
> Algoma Central. They have been modified
> inside to accommodate tables, and appear to
> have been resided.

> Aarne H. Frobom


denmeg_hogan@msn.com