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 Post subject: TVRM / SOUTHERN #630 UPDATE
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:24 pm
Posts: 348
We are pleased to give you a pictorial update of the 630 restoration as found at http://www.tvrail.com/pages/standard/news.php:

As you can see, restoration work continues on #630. On January 6 she was rolled out of the shop to allow her new tender (frame) to be spotted behind the cab for evaluation. Since #630's tender tank is deteriorated (it was already leaking when last used in 1989), it has been decided to build a new tank and place it on #4501's tender frame. NOTE: This is NOT the tender that #4501 was using most recently --- That tender (or at least the frame) is from a larger Central of Georgia locomotive and was outfited for #4501 in the early '70's (and a new welded tank provided by the NS excursion program in the mid '80's.) Utilizing #4501's early tender frame will allow capacity increases as well as aesthetic improvement. Since estimates for a new welded tank fall in the $100,000 to $200,000 range, TVRM may elect to order a customized "kit" and fabricate it onsite in Soule Shops. This will take a substantial investment in time and treasure. We are soliciting your help with tax deductible donations. All contributions will be acknowledged with a receipt letter and listing in our Smoke & Cinders newsletter. Thanks in advance!


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630 - SMALL.JPG
630 - SMALL.JPG [ 39.74 KiB | Viewed 12905 times ]
4501 tender - SMALL.JPG
4501 tender - SMALL.JPG [ 33.72 KiB | Viewed 12903 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: TVRM / SOUTHERN #630 UPDATE
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:48 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:00 pm
Posts: 755
Location: NJ
Fantastic newsletter! Well written and full of great information.

Later!
Mr. Ed


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM / SOUTHERN #630 UPDATE
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:06 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:46 pm
Posts: 131
Thank you for sharing Steve. It's nice to see one of the two Consolidations getting some attention.

I might have a replica PS4 whistle to put on it when you guys get done with it.

Ryan


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM / SOUTHERN #630 UPDATE
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:36 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:24 pm
Posts: 348
Thanks Mr. Ed. I guess 15 years of experience can be used for something! I "took on" S&C in 1994 after providing photos beginning around 1986 (have been documenting TVRM happenings since purchasing my first "real" camera in 1979 for my 15th birthday, a Mamiya NC1000s which was a less expensive alternative to the well known Canon AE-1.)

Well Ryan that might be arranged. TVRM has a Virginia Southwestern whistle that sounds very "Ps4-ish" to me. It has been used for variety on both 4501 and 610 on occasion (although not lately on 4501!)


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM / SOUTHERN #630 UPDATE
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2187
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
It's nice to see 630 coming back together; it was a favorite of mine back in the day. I am partial to black steam locomotives (being a Yankee).

Some questions if I may: If 630's tank is rotten, and a new tank will have to be built, why not simply duplicate 630's tank? Mention was made of "aestheic improvements"....what is meant by that?

The tender in the photo has "4501" on the rear. If this is 4501's old tender, when were the coal space sides modifed? 4501's original tender had flat, lower coal space sides.

Nice work on 630, and you guys should be pleased to have it back.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: TVRM / SOUTHERN #630 UPDATE
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:17 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:14 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Howard P. wrote:
It's nice to see 630 coming back together; it was a favorite of mine back in the day. I am partial to black steam locomotives (being a Yankee).

Some questions if I may: If 630's tank is rotten, and a new tank will have to be built, why not simply duplicate 630's tank? Mention was made of "aestheic improvements"....what is meant by that?

The tender in the photo has "4501" on the rear. If this is 4501's old tender, when were the coal space sides modifed? 4501's original tender had flat, lower coal space sides.

Nice work on 630, and you guys should be pleased to have it back.

Howard P.



While I do not represent TVRM in any shape or form, I believe to answer some of your questions:

1.) I believe that TVRM is wanting to increase the coal and water capacity of the tender, which explains the reason behind using the frame for 4501's old tender instead of just building an identical tank to 630's old tender, which received it's current configuration in 1967/1968 when Southern rebuilt the 630 (and later the 722 in 1969/1970) as its coal space had been cut down when used on the ET&WNC.

2.) From various photographs I have seen, I believe the 4501's old tender's coal space was extended sometime in 1967 and the 4501 operated with that tender until 1969 (as I recall seeing it with the larger tender in photos of the event with S&A 750 and the Flying Scotchman held in Anniston, Alabama that year) when it was replaced with the former Central of Georgia tender, which it carried until 1981 and then when it re-emerged in 1984, it had a welded tank replacing the Central of Georgia tank. I believe that Norfolk Southern used the same frame, but I'm not 100 percent sure and I also heard that the 4501's current tender received roller-bearing trucks in 1984 as well from a 1984 issue of Trains magazine that I recall reading a brief caption of in the "Railroad News Photos" section.

Steve,

I agree with everyone else's sentiments. I enjoyed seeing the photographs especially with 630 being pushed outside of the shop as I know it has been inside the shops at East Chattanooga since 2001. I will be interested in seeing the 630 (and it's new tender) once the overhaul is completed and also hope that nothing major is found wrong with the 610 during it's downtime.


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM / SOUTHERN #630 UPDATE
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2462
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Is that K&T number 10's tender in the photo with 4501's tender? It has the "6" on it from when it masquaraded as NO&NE 6910, but I think I see the "tuck" in Kentucky & Tennessee as well.

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David M. Wilkins

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM / SOUTHERN #630 UPDATE
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:25 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:24 pm
Posts: 348
Sharp eye there wilkinsd...it is indeed the actual K&T #10 tender drawbarred to the other one. You can make out the "Kentucky" along the top wearing through the black paint. Yes, the "6" is from 6910 for those two trips in 1965. (I didn't get to photograph those trips as I was one year old and living in New Jersey.) BTW: Having two tenders "tethered" allowed a coupler on each end for switching...not that they've moved much in the last 30 years or so.

The current tender for #4501 includes the Central of Georgia frame (but probably not much more from the CofG.)


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 Post subject: TVRM - A TENDER SUBJECT
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:18 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:24 pm
Posts: 348
Get it? (subject line)

A few photos from 1/13/10 showing 630 with 4501's old tender, 630's old tender, and 4501's current tender (welded.) Just trying to thoroughly confuse everyone!


Attachments:
File comment: 630 with 4501's old tender
630 with 4501 old tender.JPG
630 with 4501 old tender.JPG [ 61 KiB | Viewed 11108 times ]
File comment: 630's old tender
630 tender.JPG
630 tender.JPG [ 83.24 KiB | Viewed 11106 times ]
File comment: 4501's current tender (welded)
4501 current tender.JPG
4501 current tender.JPG [ 50.32 KiB | Viewed 11096 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: TVRM / SOUTHERN #630 UPDATE
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:59 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2187
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
That big, welded 4501 tender looks like it belongs behind an IC or L&N 4-8-2 !!!!

Unrelated to tenders or 630, but interesting to note that 4501 will be 100 years old next year.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: TVRM / SOUTHERN #630 UPDATE
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2363
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
It's interesting to know the "back story" on these locomotives and their tenders.

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Tom Gears
Wilmington, DE

If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM / SOUTHERN #630 UPDATE
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 1:04 pm
Posts: 625
Steve,

Has there been any discussion of using the new 4501 tender on the 630 as a quick fix? If it will fit under the cab roof TVRM could delay the big outlay of money and get the 630 in service faster. I am sure somebody has thought of this but it would be interesting to know if it is even possible.

The new 630 tender will be similar to some applied to SR 2-8-0's by one of the shops, perhaps Costner. It would extend her range on the Georgia trips.

John Bohon


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM / SOUTHERN #630 UPDATE
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2462
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
I have a box of Kodak Instamatic slides taken on one of the "6910" trips. They belonged to a KRM member that gave them to me.

Howard P. wrote:
That big, welded 4501 tender looks like it belongs behind an IC or L&N 4-8-2 !!!!


The CofG tender, and it's later welded replacment both look a lot like your standard USRA tender tank, of approximately 18-19 tons of coal and 10,000 gallons of water. The welded tank that 4501s current tender has looks a lot like the welded L&N tank that is mated with L&N 152 these days. The tender that L&N 152 was preserved with likely came from one of the former GM&N pacifics that ended up on the L&N. When the restoration was underway, a tender was acquired from the Heart of Dixie Chapter of the NRHS. The tender had originally been mated to L&N 408, a USRA light 4-8-2. It's the only welded L&N tank of that type I have seen, and it also has unique vertical patches in the side. The tender looks good with 152, and I spent many a Saturday and Sunday in the 1990s "pushing coal" in the tender (flat bottom for the stoker, but 152 was a hand bomber, so one had to help push the coal forward after a few tons had been used). I kind of wish KRM had the money and the interest to restore the smaller 152 tender, with a new tank (it's pretty well shot). The extra capacity isn't needed on the New Haven to Boston (Kentucky) run these days, and it would give the locomotive a more authentic look.


I spent a long time in the car today driving for work, and all of this talk about the old days of the Southern Steam program reminded me of Carl Cruger, the man who led the L&N 152 restoration for the Kentucky Railway Museum. In the 1970s, besides leading the effort to return 152 to steam, he was a volunteer on the Southern Steam Program, almost on a weekly basis during the season. He worked out a deal with his employers where he would work 4 day weeks during the summer, take Amtrak from Louisville to Birmingham on Thursday night and spend Friday, Saturday, and Sunday with the program, return on Sunday night or Monday morning. He always had good stories, like the time T&P 610 blasted the foam sound-deadening insulation installed on the Georgetown, IN tunnel on Southern's St. Louis line, or how 610 rolled the rail over sitting at the depot in Danville, KY. It allegedly took 3 SD35s to pull the locomotive back onto the rail. One of his more intersting stories was how 4501 was supposed to be used for the movie "Coal Miner's Daughter" but could not raise steam. The 2839 had just arrived, so a quick inspection was conducted and she was steamed up. The painters were called out of bed in the middle of the night to apply Southern markings, and off they went in the morning with the movie train. The portion of Kentucky where the film was made was and is pretty isolated, and it happened at the time of 3 mile island. Carl said they were all wondering what had hpened while theywere up in the mountiains fiming that movie. Carl is still with us, last itme I saw him about a year ago, he hasn't changed or aged a bit since I first met him as a 13 year old in 1993.

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David M. Wilkins

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM / SOUTHERN #630 UPDATE
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:19 am
Posts: 545
Location: Scottsboro, AL
John Bohon wrote:
Has there been any discussion of using the new 4501 tender on the 630 as a quick fix?


I believe just about every possible 630/tender combination has been thoroughly discussed in house and the preferred option as Steve first indicated is a new tank on 4501's old tender frame. The final outcome will likely depend on funding sources.

Howard P. wrote:
That big, welded 4501 tender looks like it belongs behind an IC or L&N 4-8-2 !!!!

Unrelated to tenders or 630, but interesting to note that 4501 will be 100 years old next year.


4501's big welded tender started out smaller - the frame was stretched by the Southern.

Not only will 4501 turn 100 next year, but 2011 marks TVRM's 50th anniversary. A planning committee is working on some special events to mark the occasion. Keep your eye on http://www.tvrail.com in the coming months for more details, and I'm sure Steve will be posting here as well.

Alan Maples


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM / SOUTHERN #630 UPDATE
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:24 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:50 pm
Posts: 373
Dave,

Personally, I'd love to see some pics of 6910. There aren't many pics of her out there on the web. Don't know if we'll ever see her in steam again. Are 4501 and 6910 twins? I know they were K&T 11 and 12 back in the day.

Rob Gardner


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