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Baldwin Steam Dummys
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Author:  Paulie62 [ Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Baldwin Steam Dummys

Hi all I am looking for information on a Baldwin Steam Dummy built during the Burnham Williams & Co. years. Build number is 12027 built in 1895 and bearing the #1 under the Name of the Mohnsville Adamstown railway or Custer's Steam Line. If you google either name it should take you to a link for Mohnton History or Mohntin Trolley where both engine from our town are pictured. Any help with either engine would be appreciated. Thanks Paul
P.S. Dolly is the name to click on to see the Steam Dummy The coffee Box I think is mis-identifitied as a Cornwall

Author:  o anderson [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baldwin Steam Dummys

Steam Dummy locomotives are an interesting element of railway history. Only one has been preserved in excellent condition, this is Mammoth Cave/ East End Railway #4. (Baldwin #9442, 1888)
Image
http://steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=1416
There may be one or two others surviving in Europe or South America. A few Baldwin and Porter steam dummy engines survive without the original body in North America.
The second engine of your line might have been a New York or Chicago elevated rapid transit locomotive. A few of these survive in various forms as well.

Author:  Ron Goldfeder [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baldwin Steam Dummys

The second engine is a former elevated railway Forney, but either from New York City (most likely) or Brooklyn. Nothing that ran on the two steam elevated lines in Chicago looked like it. All from the South Side line were Vauclain compounds from Baldwin except one, and the Lake Street line's were all larger ones from Rhode Island loco works.

Ron Goldfeder
St Louis

Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baldwin Steam Dummys

o anderson wrote:
Steam Dummy locomotives are an interesting element of railway history. Only one has been preserved in excellent condition, this is Mammoth Cave/ East End Railway #4. (Baldwin #9442, 1888)
Image
http://steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=1416
There may be one or two others surviving in Europe or South America. A few Baldwin and Porter steam dummy engines survive without the original body in North America.
The second engine of your line might have been a New York or Chicago elevated rapid transit locomotive. A few of these survive in various forms as well.


Actually, one, Baldwin 11676/1891, has been preserved in working order at the NSWRTM Valley Heights, W. of Sydney, Australia.

Image

The original wooden tram body was destroyed in an arson attack at this museum in June 1993; but a replacement body was made for it.

Another Syndey tramway Baldwin steam dummy, Baldwin 11665/1891 #100; is also in operational condition at the Museum of Transport in Auckland, New Zealand:

Image

Henry & Vale of Sydney also built some copies for use on Syndey tramways; one of these is also perserved at the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney. It's original number was 28A; but is not displayed as the original No. 1:

Image

Author:  Ted Miles [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baldwin Steam Dummys

There is a second steam dummy from the Market Street Railway of the 1880s in San Francisco and the Los angeles Motor Road in the early 1900s. It is displayed in Travel Town Park at Griffith Park in Los Angeles. It lost its wooden body when the SP added a pilot truck and made it into a 2-6-0 or 2-4-0 switch engine.

the only surviving elevated locomotive is in the Museum of Transport at St Louis. It is a Chicage elevated perhaps Lake street or Northwestern Railway. It was later in Mrxico and was only restored to a Chicago paint scheme recently.

There is another elevated engine in Cuba until recently

James do you have any details on that one?

Ted Miles

Author:  Ron Goldfeder [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baldwin Steam Dummys

The engine at the Museum of Transportation near St. Louis is Lake Street Elevated RR #9, "Charles H." It was named after Charles H. Deere, son of John Deere and a member of the first board of directors of the line. It was built by Rhode Island (#2942) in 1893 and was originally a cross compound. It was converted to a simple engine when sold after the line electrified and wound up in Mexico. It was donated and arrived at the museum in January 1958. It was cosmetically restored as close as possible to its original condition (still simple) in 1995-96 and taken to Chicago for the centennial of the Loop elevated in 1997. It is the only elevated railway steam locomotive in a museum anywhere in the world There are four ex-New York engines in existance, three hulks near Nome in Alaska, last used by the Council City & Solomon River RR, and another hulk in a Louisiana swamp. The only other surviving elevated steam loco known is former South Side #42, stuffed and mounted at an apartment building near the sugar mill where it was last used in Tacajo, Cuba, marked with incorrect info on its smokebox door.

Ron Goldfeder
Lake Street #9 Restoration Team Leader

Author:  Ted Miles [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baldwin Steam Dummys

Ron,
i am an avid post card collector and have in my St Louis collection a post card of the locomotive before it was restored as you pointed out in 1996. Please let me know if there is a post card available of the locomotive since it was restored.

Ted Miles

Author:  robertjohndavis [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baldwin Steam Dummys

Are the carcasses of the NY elevated steamers still in Alaska?

Rob

Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baldwin Steam Dummys

robertjohndavis wrote:
Are the carcasses of the NY elevated steamers still in Alaska?

Rob


I am almost certain they are. They are on isolated track in the middle of the tundra; the only way to extract them would be via a nearby road. They are also considered a local attraction.

Besides the engines themselves, the trucks from some long gone freight cars and a donkey engine (steam winch) are also sitting there; stored and waiting for a railroad that I believe was never finished.

Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baldwin Steam Dummys

They were there in all their glory when Dad and I were up there in 1999, when we found a new highway bridge close by; this view (not mine) must have been taken from the bridge:

Image

The fact that the water is about six inches deep on the summer tundra keeps most the locals off them, anyway, there is nothing of value left to steal. They've been sitting in the same spot since 1911, IIRC.

I've recently seen newer photos that show wood walkways to and around the artifacts; I guess the class of tourist that goes to Nome these days can't stand to get their feet wet.

Author:  Ron Goldfeder [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baldwin Steam Dummys

Since 1999 the state of Alaska has installed some explanatory signage and I presume the walkways around the site. When I was at the Museum of Transportation they contacted me and we sent info on elevated railway Forneys that they used in making up the signs. I never have seen what they did with it so if anyone has more recent photos please share them with us.

Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baldwin Steam Dummys

Ghastly...

Image

Author:  eze240 [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baldwin Steam Dummys

Has anyone seen the Forney 0-4-4 displayed at the Forney museum in Denver? I believe it is displayed as an elevated engine, don't know if it is though?

Attachments:
File comment: pulled this from the museum website.
FE_ForneyLocomotive.jpg
FE_ForneyLocomotive.jpg [ 46.29 KiB | Viewed 3406 times ]

Author:  Ron Goldfeder [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baldwin Steam Dummys

The engine at the Forney Museum is an 1897 36" gauge Porter plantation engine, Cora-Texas Plantation Co. No. 1, which never ran on an elevated line. All the elevated lines used standard gauge. Porter never built one for any of the elevated lines that used steam. And if you go to the museum web site it doesn't exactly say this one was used on an elevated, just that the type was used for that kind of service. But it implication is made and no further data on theirs is given. Some have posted photos of it which do call in an elevated engine, but Steamlocomotive.info has the correct details.

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