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 Post subject: Re: Early Stephenson type steam locomotives under the Arctic
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:02 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:12 pm
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The Hebrides project recovered a few rusty wheels and a nice brass name. these remains are to be found(somewhere) in the British National Collection.


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 Post subject: Re: Early Stephenson type steam locomotives under the Arctic
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:54 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:07 am
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[quote="survivingworldsteam"]
To make matters even more interesting; the ships original system for providing heating and fresh water for each ship was changed out for another system which generated more fresh water for use by the auxiliary steam engines. It is thought that the lead in the piping and joints of the system caused lead poisoning in the expedition's members; and may have contributed to their demise.

/quote]

Thanks for an interesting post -- the issue of lead poisoning has come up before and has been attributed to lead that was used in the solder that sealed tin cans.

End result was the same of course.

Bob H


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 Post subject: Re: Early Stephenson type steam locomotives under the Arctic
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:32 pm 
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Heavenrich wrote:
Thanks for an interesting post -- the issue of lead poisoning has come up before and has been attributed to lead that was used in the solder that sealed tin cans.

True, it was a common manner of death in Europe where lead was used is all manners of piping. Lots of soldiers in the Napoeonic era (particularly British soldiers and sailors) died from it due to tinned rations sealed with lead. Beethoven supposedly died from it, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Early Stephenson type steam locomotives under the Arctic
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
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For the sixth time in seven years, the Canadian government will be searching for two ancient British steam locomotives in the Arctic... but they would likely be just as interested in the ships that were wrapped around them:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/franklin-expedition-search-continues-for-6th-summer-1.2682563

This year, four ships and a UAV will be searching for Franklin's ships.

Hopefully they'll find something interesting this year!

Steve Hunter


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 Post subject: Re: Early Stephenson type steam locomotives under the Arctic
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:37 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
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Well, one of them has been found. They don't know which ship it is, so no idea if they have found the 0-4-0 or 2-2-0.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/lost-ship-from-sir-john-franklins-arctic-expedition-found/article20490498/

Rob


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 Post subject: Re: Early Stephenson type steam locomotives under the Arctic
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:53 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:48 pm
Posts: 14
Location: DFW TX
Wow!


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 Post subject: Re: Early Stephenson type steam locomotives under the Arctic
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:27 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
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This is simply incredible news. Hopefully this ship- whichever is turns out to be- will yield vast amounts of data and some smaller artifacts that can be recovered. Apparently, there is some hope that some of the photographs taken during the expedition could be recovered.

It's highly unlikely that the locomotive would be raised, but knowing the quality of work that has gone into this project over the years, we can be sure whatever is found will be well documented.

A point worth noting is that stories passed down through the years by the Inuit people told exactly where this ship would be found. While a magnetometer had been dragged over the ice above it in the past, nothing was found except what was interpreted as iron bearing rocks.

These same Inuit people had been willing to take Franklin's men under their care and help them survive, but their offers were rejected and the entire crew perished. Hopefully these lessons from the past will be noticed by our own society with its total dependence on technology.

Steve Hunter


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 Post subject: Re: Early Stephenson type steam locomotives under the Arctic
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:20 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:18 am
Posts: 411
Location: San Francisco
Cool news.

It may be worth noting that the Harper government's motivation for this search is right there in the article.
Quote:
This is truly a historic moment for Canada. Franklin’s ships are an important part of Canadian history given that his expeditions, which took place nearly 200 years ago, laid the foundations of Canada’s Arctic sovereignty

Ultimately, this is about bolstering Canada's claims to an increasingly accessible and mineral rich arctic. As temperatures rise and ice melts, Russia, Canada, and the US are going to aggressively stake claims in this area.

While my comments are a bit off-topic, it is cool to see how the economic interests of a large nation can drive an expensive and prolonged archeological mission that would otherwise be of interest to a much smaller audience.

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 Post subject: Re: Early Stephenson type steam locomotives under the Arctic
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
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Parks Canada has identified the recently discovered ship as HMS Erebus:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/franklin-expedition-ship-found-in-arctic-id-d-as-hms-erebus-1.2784268

The article doesn't say how the positive ID was made. I forget which locomotive, the 2-2-0 or the 0-4-0, was on the Erebus.

With any luck, we'll see images of the Erebus's engine eventually.

HMS Terror is still out there somewhere, hopefully she'll be discovered before too many more years pass.

Steve Hunter


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 Post subject: Re: Early Stephenson type steam locomotives under the Arctic
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:04 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
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Parks Canada is hoping to get an early start in the spring, diving through the ice to explore and document HMS Erebus.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/franklin-discovery-searchers-consider-winter-dive-to-explore-erebus-further-1.2807300

With any luck, they will find a safe way to get to the engine room next year, and document the locomotive and the modifications made to adapt it to marine use.

While they explore HMS Erebus, the search will continue for HMS Terror.

The article contains a link to footage from a similar ice dive last April, when the Canadian navy explored a well preserved merchant ship, the Breadalbane, which sank in 1853 on its way to deliver supplies to other ships that were searching for Franklin's ships and men.

Steve Hunter


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 Post subject: Re: Early Stephenson type steam locomotives under the Arctic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:32 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
Posts: 728
From the CBC this morning:

"Nearly 170 years after the crushing forces of Arctic ice helped doom Sir John Franklin's quest for the Northwest Passage, there is more than a little irony in the fact that deep sea ice is about to provide new opportunities to delve into the mysteries of the expedition's fate.

Ice two metres thick will form the platform from which Parks Canada underwater archeologists and Royal Canadian Navy divers will launch an unprecedented exploration of the wreck of HMS Erebus this week...

And that's particularly good for the new high-tech, 3D laser scanning tool that will be deployed as archeologists try to create the most detailed images possible of the wreck lying about 11 metres below the surface."


Hopefully the dive will reach the engine room and reveal details of the converted locomotive aboard Erebus.

Lots more detail in the original article:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/franklin-expedition-search-ice-dive-team-ready-to-discover-more-secrets-of-hms-erebus-1.3020860

Steve Hunter


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 Post subject: Re: Early Stephenson type steam locomotives under the Arctic
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:36 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 89
Location: Ontario, Canada.
A chap sent me information on the locomotive installation in HMS Erebus and HMS Terror which is attached here. Very interesting to know at least Erebus has been found and the early loco is perhaps in situ.

http://buildingterror.blogspot.ca/2013/ ... art-3.html


Attachments:
erebus1.jpg
erebus1.jpg [ 105.34 KiB | Viewed 1853 times ]
HMS-EREBUS-IMAGE_3265974a.jpg
HMS-EREBUS-IMAGE_3265974a.jpg [ 101.3 KiB | Viewed 1853 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Early Stephenson type steam locomotives under the Arctic
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:14 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:32 pm
Posts: 238
The finding of The Erebus was a recent PBS Nova episode, Arctic Ghost Ship.
It's up on youtube now. I found it funny that after spending most of there available time looking where they thought it was, they then looked where the native Inuit said it was, and found it.


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 Post subject: Re: Early Stephenson type steam locomotives under the Arctic
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:26 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
Posts: 181
Location: Suffolk, UK
They have now found the other ship - HMS Terror.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... ge-attempt

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 Post subject: Re: Early Stephenson type steam locomotives under the Arctic
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:59 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
Posts: 728
CBC coverage, including video of the ship:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/hms-terror-found-1.3758400

Turns out an Inuk crewmember had actually found the ship six years ago while on a fishing trip, finding part of the mast sticking out of the ice. Fortunately the research vessel detoured to check out that location.

Apparently, HMS Terror is in better condition than HMS Erebus, having been deep enough to escape serious ice damage.

It will be so cool when they finally manage to get a look at the locomotives on board these two ships.

Steve Hunter


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