Thanks, Tim, for the info!

Thanks, Brian, for the info!

OSL #110/#695 was transferred to MofW in August 1949 as #02453, renumbered in October 1963 to #902453, which is listed as retired in August 1971.

Regarding UP cars that were used for restaurants in the Golden State, besides the OSL #110/#695, here's what's listed on Don Strack's website:

Heavyweight:

#429, built in August 1925 by Pullman as 51 seat chair-smoker, rebuilt in July 1950 to modernized 44 seat chair #528, retired in 1971 and sold in 1972 to restaurant in Claremont.

#434, built in August 1925 by Pullman as 51 seat chair-smoker, rebuilt in January 1951 to modernized 44 seat chair #530, retired in 1970 and sold in 1972 to restaurant in San Bernardino.

#440, built in September 1926 by Pullman as 50 seat chair, rebuilt in February 1951 to modernized 44 seat chair #535, retired in 1970 and sold in 1972 to restaurant in Sunset Beach (Huntington Beach).

#447, built in September 1928 by Pullman as chair, reconfigured in May 1939 to 54 seat women's chair #4202, rebuilt in August 1948 to modernized 44 seat chair #582, retired in 1968 and sold in 1972 to restaurant in Solana Beach.

#450, built in September 1928 by Pullman as chair, rebuilt in May 1939 to modernized 44 seat chair #504, retired in 1968 and sold in 1972 to restaurant in Solana Beach.

#465, built in October 1929 by AC&F as chair, rebuilt in June 1939 to modernized 44 seat chair #513, retired in 1968 and sold in 1972 to restaurant in Solana Beach.

#466, built in October 1929 by AC&F as chair, reconfigured in March 1939 to 54 seat women's chair #4210, rebuilt in August 1948 to modernized 44 seat chair #590, modified to branchline coach in 1966, retired in 1968 and sold in 1972 to restaurant in Hemet, later moved to Romoland.

#476, built in November 1929 by AC&F as chair, reconfigured in March 1939 to 54 seat women's chair #4213, rebuilt in July 1948 to modernized 44 seat chair #593, retired in 1968 and sold in 1972 to restaurant in Hemet, later moved to Romoland.

#1263, built in January 1931 by Pullman as 62 seat chair-10 seat smoker, rebuilt in August 1948 to modernized 44 seat chair #573, retired in 1968 and sold in 1972 to restaurant in Hemet. Was this car also moved to Romoland?

#1267, built in February 1931 by Pullman as 62 seat chair-10 seat smoker, rebuilt in August 1948 to modernized 44 seat chair #577, retired in 1968 and sold in 1972 to restaurant in Solana Beach.

Lightweight:

#4813, built in March 1949 by AC&F in Lot #3032 as 48 seat diner, retired in 1971 and sold in 1972 to D. Wallengren*, later to restaurant in City of Commerce.

*Strack lists the #4802, #4813, and #4814 as sold to D. Wallengren; Randall lists the #4802 and #4813 as sold to Heber Creeper, and the #4814 as sold to Golden Wool Company; the #4814 was later part of the Overland Rail Travel fleet as Mohave River, then to SCD #3680 Zitacuaro.

#5105 (1st), built in December 1953 by AC&F in Lot #3811 as 66 seat full diner 6 seat waiting lounge, renumbered in March 1956 to #5111, retired in 1968 and sold in 1969?? to Chrome Crankshaft in Bell Gardens, later to restaurant in Riverside, listed as scrapped.

#6103, built in April 1949 by AC&F in Lot #3033 as 39 seat buffet (club) lounge-dormitory, retired in 1971 and sold in 1972 to Overland Rail Travel*, later to restaurant in San Bernardino.

*Strack lists the #6101 as sold to Pacific Railroad Society as Cajon Pass, and the #6103 and #6104 as sold to Overland Rail Travel; Randall lists the #6101, #6103, and #6104 as sold to Pacific Railroad Society. Overland Rail operated the #6102 as the Afton Canyon, which had been sold to Craig A. Rasmussen; later to SCD #379 Club Sonora.

#6205 Mojave River, built in July 1949 by AC&F in Lot #3034 as 39 seat buffet (club) lounge with barber shop, shower, and steward's room, which were replaced in 1959 with an 11 seat card room. Retired in 1968 and sold in 1969 to Chrome Crankshaft in Bell Gardens, later to restaurant in Redlands.

Sources:

1. Don Strack's UP passenger car pages: http://utahrails.net/pass/pass-index.php

2. "Streamliner Cars Volume Three: ACF - Other Builders" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1982)

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Bump.

Having received the summary of Tim's information, here's some additions and clarifications:

Clarifications:

Back on pages #2, #3, and #22:



Tim identified this car as the Timken:

73. Timken (Lot #4503, Plan #2410F, 1917/42, 12S-1DR)--Tourist #2339--sold to SOU and converted to baggage-express #461* (1953) renumbered to GS&F #6462 (when??) sold to Winston-Salem Chapter NRHS (when??) sold to NCTM (when??)

*Palmieri lists the #461 as converted from 10S-2DR Point Case (GS&F #6203). Can anybody clarify? Thanks in advance!

Back on page #18:



Tim identified this car as the John W. Arrington:

325. John W. Arrington (Lot #4845, Plan #3410, 1925, 12S-1DR, ex-Larpenteur)--sold to SOU #2472 (1948) sold to Collis P. Huntington Chapter NRHS?* (when??)

*Has this car simply been renamed Collis P. Huntington or is it actually owned by the C.P. Huntington Chapter? Thanks in advance!

Back on page #8:



Tim provided some additional info:

228. Vail (Lot #4649, Plan #2416D, 1922, 1DR-plr [26], PRR)--sold to CofG and converted to coach #636 (1941) converted to grill lounge #691 (when??) to SOU MofW #960100 (when??) to NS #960100??* sold to TVRM (when??) sold to Savannah Roundhouse (when??) and stored in Chattanooga

*Was this car sold before or after the NS merger? Thanks in advance!

Additions:

347. Galesburg (Lot #4443, Plan #2585D, 1916, 10S-1DR-2C)--sold to SOU #2400 (1948) converted to safety instruction car #SA-2 (when??) renumbered to #22 (when??) sold to Spencer Chapter NRHS (when??*) to NCTM (when??)

*Was this car sold before or after the NS merger? Thanks in advance!

348. The Pullman history of this car is unknown. Converted by SOU at Hayne to business car #12 (2/1/1949) renumbered to #6 (5/9/1953) renumbered to #2 (10/15/1970) to NS #6 Atlanta. I have not located any recent pictures of this car. Deaccessioned? Does anybody know if this car received an #800xxx-series number? Does anybody know which Pullman was converted to #12? Thanks in advance!

349. Santiago (Lot #4979, Plan #3967A, 1926, buf-lng)--sold to SOU (1945) converted at Hayne to business car #15 (4/20/1950) renumbered to #12 (5/19/1953) renumbered to #9 (10/21/1970) renumbered to #8 (7/14/1971) to NS #21 West Virginia (#800775), recently reconfigured to club diner*

*Does anybody know when the West Virginia was outshopped from Altoona as a club diner? Thanks in advance!

With the Santiago, there appears to be a conflict with the SOU numbering history:

On page #21, Jerry lists the numbering history as follows:



On page #22, Tim stated:



In addition, Mike Palmieri's SOU heavyweight sleeper roster lists that the Santiago was converted to business car #6.

So if the Santiago was converted to SOU #15, and is now NS #21 West Virginia, then which car was converted to AGS #6? Thanks in advance!

350. National Park (Lot #4885, Plan #3951L, 1925, bag-buf-club-lng-barber)--sold to SOU (1945) converted at Hayne to business car #9 (11/19/1946) renumbered to #8 (10/24/1970) renumbered to #9 (7/14/1971)

Does anybody know the current status/location of National Park? Was this business car retired before or after the NS merger? Thanks in advance!

351. Point Allerton (Lot #4961, Plan #3584A, 1926, 10S-2DR)--sold to CNO&TP #3507 (1948) converted to coach #1035 (6/30/1954) converted to open-air coach #1070 W. Graham Claytor, Jr. (when??) sold to VMT (when??*)

*Was this car sold to VMT following the Dismal Swamp derailment? Thanks in advance!

*In the 1st post of the 2nd page of the SOU Excursion Fleet thread (http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=154), j32885 lists both SOU #1035 and #1070 as 2 different line items, with the #1035 entering MofW after Dismal Swamp, and #1070 as owned by VMT. Was there a 2nd SOU #10xx-series modified coach that was renumbered to #1035 after the #1035 (1st) had been converted to #1070? Thanks in advance!

352. Pyriton (Lot #4249, Plan #2410A, 1914/40, 12S-1DR)--Tourist #1618--sold to SOU (1947) converted to dinette-coach #3100 (when??) sold to Gordon Farmer in Augusta (when??) to Pete Stabovitz-Hamburg Industries (when??)

353. Schodack (Lot #3949, Plan #2410, 1912/41, 12S-1DR)--Tourist #1255--sold to SOU (1948) converted to baggage-express #4057 (when??) sold to Birmingham Red Cross (when??)

354. James Gadsden (Lot #4899, Plan #3584A, 1925, 10S-2DR, ex-Edmund W. Pettus)--sold to GS&F #6201 (1948) converted to baggage-express #6459 (when??) sold to John Birmingham-Boulder Scientific (when??)

355. Point Vincente (Lot #4836, Plan #3584, 1924, 10S-2DR)--sold to SOU #2435 (1948) converted to coach #1034 (1954) to MofW #960422 (when??) to NS #960422

356. Fort Michie (Lot #4592, Plan #2585D, 1920, 10S-1DR-2C)--sold to AGS #4004 (1948) converted to coach #1039 (when??) to MofW #960420* (when??) to NS #960420??* sold to SARM* (when??)

*I had previously listed the SOU #960420 as converted from SOU modified coach #1038, which had been converted in 1954 from 10S-restaurant-lounge observation #2459 Windsor Locks (Lot #4531, Plan #4027G, 1918/32), which had been converted from Plan #2412F Radcliffe. To NS #960420, sold to Chuck Jensen 4/24/1996, to Mid-America Locomotive & Car Repair (MALX) (Evansville, IN), to East Tennessee Rail Car Services, Inc. and stored in Oak Ridge, TN, and listed earlier in this thread as line item #225. Were there 2 different SOU modified coaches that were numbered as #960420? And if so, are both still extant? Thanks in advance!

*What makes this even more of a conundrum is the fact that in the SOU Excursion Fleet thread, the #1038 (ex-Windsor Locks) is listed as being in the excursion fleet up through the Dismal Swamp derailment (1986), which would mean that it was not renumbered to #960420 until well after the NS merger in 1982! This could further support there being 2 different cars numbered as #960420! Southern's habit of renumbering/number swapping cars in MofW service just adds to the number history spaghetti!

*The problem with #1038 being in the excursion fleet through Dismal Swamp is the fact that it is not listed in the NS passenger equipment diagram folio dated 12/2/1985!

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Tim Andrews' Surviving SOU Pullman spreadsheet

3. Mike Palmieri's SOU Pullman roster

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Thanks, Richard, for the info!

And welcome to RYPN!

Does anybody have a full or partial listing of the cars that were stored in Fort Wayne?

Unknown Status:

316. Capitol Heights (Lot #4923, Plan #3521A, 1925, 10S-buf-lng-obs, ex-Monte Vista)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Midwest Steel (1961) to Jack Ferris (when?)--does anyone know the current whereabouts or status of this car?

This page has 3 photos date Decemebr 1963 with the Ferris family enjoying their private car "CAPITOL HEIGHTS".

http://contentdm.acpl.lib.in.us/cdm/sea ... der/contri



Question:

Did Jack Ferris own any other cars in addition to the nine I have listed?

I also have 'NIGHTSTAR" listed as going to Ferris in October 1965, if this is accurate, it was also acquired from Midwest Steel, as listed on Tom Madden's page.

IIRC, "W. Graham Claytor" was converted from a coach at Haynes Shop around 1976. It was donated to VMT along with "Lake Pearl" around 1987. The car is in very good condition except for the wreck damage to the vestibule. We're planning on eventually restoring the car for use on the VMT train rides, but a lot of other projects are higher on the priority list

Thanks, Richard and Gary, for the info!

Having received Wayner's "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars", here's what's listed under Plan #4025D on Page #222:

Manitoba Club to GN #1020 to baggage #473.

Midland Hills Club to GN #1021 to baggage #474.

So it would seem that BN #976058 in Mineral, WA, is indeed the Manitoba Club...well, not necessarily...

In the photo section, on Page #XI, is a picture of the GN #1020 Manitoba Club in GN Green & Orange and assigned to the Winnipeg Limited, complete with typical centered Mars Light...now, wait a second! The pictures I took back in July of the BN #976058 in Mineral clearly show the Mars Light installed at the vestibule end of the car, whereas the photo of the Manitoba Club on Page #XI shows the Mars Light installed at the observation end!

So that being the case, it would appear that BN #976058 was previously GN baggage #474, converted from #1021 Midland Hills Club!

330. Midland Hills Club (Lot #4049, Plan #4025D, 1912/35, 8S-buf-lng-sol-obs, ex-Miraflores)--sold to GN #1021 (1948) converted to baggage #474 (1956) to BN MofW #976058 sold to Mount Rainier Scenic RR

Did GN assign both #1020 and #1021 to the Winnipeg Limited? If that's the case, then why was the Mars Light on #1021 installed at the vestibule end instead of the observation end?

Pictures:

1. Vestibule end of BN #976058: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3905804

2. Observation end of BN #976058: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906029

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

3. GN passenger car diagram folio, January 1966

4. GN list of equipment, 1950

5. Friends of the Burlington Northern passenger car pages:

___5a. Main index: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/bnpassmain.htm

___5b. Former GN cars: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/pgn.htm

___5c. GN baggage cars: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/gna.htm

___5d. GN #473 and #474: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/gnb473.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

This may not be an indicator of which car was which, in as much because rider cars such as 494 ran with the vestibule end to the rear so as to make it a shorter walk for the rear brakeman when he had to throw switches and flag the end of the train. It would be a relatively easy thing for the GN to have removed the light from the solarium end and move it to the vestibule end as a part of the conversion to a baggage - express - rider car.

In the March (annual) 1964 issue of The Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment (published by The Railway Equipment and Publication Co.) has the following cars listed in the "Privately Owner Passenger Trains Cars" section under Private Railroad Cars, Inc (with Mr John W. Ferris as President):

Capital Heights - private car
Travel Club - 8sec-buffet-solarium obs
Clover Colony - 8 sec-5 DBR

The 1965 issue added these cars:

Night Star and Night Trail - 14 SBR
Nansemond County - 10 sec-solarium=lounge (not listed in following years)

In the 1966 issue the following cars were added:

Wabash Valley - diner-lounge
Dover Plains - buffet-lounge-sleeper
Glen Alta - 6Comp-3DRM

In the 1967 issue the follwering cars were also listed:

Cascade Banks - 10 Rmt-5 DBR
Martha Washington - dinner-recreation

No listing in the 1968 issue.

This car was none other thank Nickel Plate Road 125, sold by the N&W after the merger. This car was later restored to its NKP identification but in a faux paint scheme. More recently it has been acquired by Iowa Pacific and shipped to San Luis & Rio Grande.

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/wab_wabash_valley0.jpg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tamarackgold/9768104174

Thanks, Jerry, for the info on BN #976058 and NKP #125!

Thanks, Brian, for the info on the Jack Ferris roster!



316. Capitol Heights (Lot #4923, Plan #3521A, 1925, 10S-buf-lng-obs, ex-Monte Vista, B&O)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Midwest Steel* (1961) sold to Jack Ferris (1965??*)--does anybody know the current status/location of this car??

*Is it possible that Jack Ferris acquired the Capitol Heights and Nansemond County directly from Pullman in October 1965, despite the cars listed as being sold to Midwest Steel?

315. Travel Club (Lot #4484, Plan #4025S, 1917/33, 8S-buf-lng-sol-obs, ex-Manyaska, SP)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Jack Ferris (1963) to Back Forty Junction restaurant (Decatur, IN)--scrapped in 2012

3. Clover Colony (Lot #4574, Plan #4036I, 1920/40, 8S-5DB, ex-Bernadotte)--sold to SP (1948) to #8351 (1957) to Jack Ferris (1964??) to High Iron Co. (1968) to Micky Wolfson (1972**) moved to Gold Coast RR Museum (1986) to Pete Clausen (1993) to TVRM (1993)

**The sale date of 1972 may not be accurate, as the Clover Colony was in the consist of the 3rd High Iron 2-day round trip between Hoboken and Binghamton on May 26th-27th, 1973. See here: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24857



153. Nightstar (Lot #6056, Plan #3980C, 1927, 14SB, MILW)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Midwest Steel* (1964) sold to Jack Ferris (1965*) to Lake Shore RHS and leased to Iowa Pacific

*The CCR database lists the Nightstar as sold to Midwest Steel in 1964, whereas Wayner lists the Nightstar as sold to Jack Ferris in 1965.

357. Night Trail (Lot #6304, Plan #3980B, 1929, 14SB)--sold to NYNH&H #758 (1948) sold to Jack Ferris (when??) to Al Coleman--does anybody know the current status/location of this car??

358. Nansemond County (Lot #4998, Plan #3521F, 1926, 10S-buf-lng-obs, ex-Nansemond, nee-Mt. Slyen, N&W)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Midwest Steel* (1964) sold to Jack Ferris (1965*)--does anybody know the current status/location of this car??

*Is it possible that Jack Ferris acquired the Capitol Heights and Nansemond County directly from Pullman in October 1965, despite the cars listed as being sold to Midwest Steel?



18. Dover Plains (Lot #4698, Plan #4015C, 1923/34, 6DB-buf-lng, ex-Toms River)--sold to MC #10750 (1948) returned to Pullman (1958) sold to Jack Ferris (1965) to E&LS

27. Glen Alta (Lot #4922, Plan #3523M, 1925, 6C-3DR)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Jack Ferris (1965) to IRM to Iowa Pacific as SLRG #9171

Also listed as sold to Jack Ferris:

47. Mt. Darwin (Lot #4816, Plan #3521, 1924, 10S-buf-lng-obs)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Jack Ferris (1965) to Bear Creek Scenic to RR Town USA to Galveston RR Museum, painted in SOU Two-Tone Green as Robert E. Lee

44. McKinneysburg (Lot #4845, Plan #3410, 1925, 12S-1DR)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Jack Ferris (1965) to John Birmingham

29. Glen Fee (Lot #4970, Plan #3523A, 1926, 6C-3DR)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Jack Ferris (1965) to OP&E to Galveston RR Museum

71. Woodland (Lot #6360, Plan #3410B, 1930, 12S-1DR, UP)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Jack Ferris (1965) to OP&E to Galveston RR Museum to Iowa Pacific--does anyone know the SLRG number?

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Another Survivor:

359. Ransford (Lot #4386, Plan #2412U, 1916/35, 16S)--Tourist #4028/#6080--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to GN (1953) converted to rules instruction car #B-5 (1955) to BN #B-5 to display in Ham Lake, MN

Pictures:

1. In Chicago, August 1970: http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?july10/07-03-10/GNB5_Chicago_IL_AUG1970_Instruction_Car.jpg (ABPR photo)

2. In Ham Lake, painted as GN #A1, August 2007: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=842397 (Matt Petersen photo)

Diagram:

1. GN #B-5, 11/1/1968: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/bnb5.jpg (FOBNR photo) (click once to enlarge)

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

3. Pictures located via Jerry LaBoda's photo links database: http://passcarphotos.info/

4. Friends of the Burlington Northern passenger car pages:

___4a. Main index: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/bnpassmain.htm

___4b. Business cars: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/pbnbuscar.htm

___4c. BN #B-5: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/bnb5.htm

5. GN passenger car diagram folios, January 1966 and November 1968

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Another Survivor:

360. Denholm (Lot #3863, Plan #2417, 1910, 1DR-buf-plr [24], PRR)--sold to NP and converted to baggage-dormitory #1498 (1941), later sold to private ownership and located at Battle Ground, Yacolt & Chelatchie Prairie RR (Battle Ground, WA)

The roster on the Chelatchie Prairie website does not list the heritage of this car, which is listed as:



I did some searching, but could not find any photos of this car.

Also, the FOBNR website does not list this car on the ex-NP passenger car page, so most likely this car had either been retired or transferred to MofW before the merger.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

3. Chelatchie Prairie website:

___3a. Main page: http://www.bycx.com/

___3b. Roster page: http://www.bycx.com/node/19

4. Friends of the Burlington Northern passenger car pages:

___4a. Main index: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/bnpassmain.htm

___4b. NP passenger car page: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/pnp.htm

___4c. NP baggage car page: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/npb.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.