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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:18 am 
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Here's another survivor I completely forgot about:

229. Seneca Valley (Lot #6356, Plan #3988A, 1930, 1DR-1BD-buf-lng-obs, NYC)--leased to NYC as #2598 (1939)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Royal American Shows (1956) to Hollywood RR Station Museum (Hollywood, FL) and stored--see here: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35518

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:20 am 
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I'm double posting some questions into this thread, seeing if somebody will have some info:

1. Back on page #3 of this thread, line item #87, I listed a surviving ex-SP heavyweight which was still in active MofW service on the Natron Cutoff (Cascade Summit) in Oregon, SPMW #7118. Does anyone know the identity of this car??

Here's the other thread where I've posted the same question: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35430

2. Also back on page #3, line items #78, #83, and #86, I listed three heavyweights (two ex-UP, identified, and one ex-NP, unidentified) that were part of a development in downtown Yakima, WA, called Track 29, located along the ex-NP Stampede Pass mainline across from the depot. Back in September, the development was being demolished, these three cars included. However, the NP RY Museum in Toppenish (also on the ex-NP main) was trying to save these cars, and I have not heard anything further, which is why I noted back on page #3 that the future of these three cars was very uncertain.

Specifically, line item #86, the ex-NP sleeper, is the focus of this question. After looking for photos in various places on the web, I have not been able to locate any photos of the three cars other than the ones posted in the linked thread (below) and the lone photo I did know about on RR Picture Archives (one of the ex-UP cars). Has anyone taken photos of the ex-NP car, or written down any car name(s) apparent on the side--it was the car farthest from the mainline, and the only one not in yellow paint.

Here's the other thread where I've posted the same question: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35607

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:14 am 

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The History of GN 480
In July 1917, the Pullman company built a twelve-section, one drawing room sleeper named "Tasmania" for their nation-wide sleeping car service. It was part of lot 4503, built to plan 2410 F. Mechanically, it rode on cast steel, clasp brake trucks, had dual LN brake systems with 16" cylinders, vapor heat, and type-D couplers. Inside it was painted in solid colors, rather than simulated wood. In March 1943, they rebuilt it into tourist sleeper 2549.

In February 1948, needing to replace well-worn old wooden baggage cars, the Great Northern purchased fifteen tourist sleeper cars from Pullman. This was done under AFE (Authority For Expenditure) number 76178 of 12/1/48. They paid $1,555 each. Twelve of the fifteen were rebuilt by the St. Cloud shops into baggage cars 475 to 486. The work took from October to December of 1948, cost an estimated $6,442 per car, and was done under AFE 76179.

Starting in 1954, the Great Northern began combining the Fast Mail and Western Star between Spokane and Seattle. This created trains over twenty cars long, with so many mail cars that if they were all handled at the head end, the passengers would have to get off on the ballast and walk to the depot platform. Thus the non-working mail cars were placed at the rear, followed by an empty coach for the rear flagman. The extra coach was judged inefficient, so sometime between 1954 and 1956 a rear office was added to cars 475-486. The flagman's accomodations included a coach seat and table, clothes locker, restroom, water cooler, and a Caban coal (later oil) stove. A portable red oscilating Mars light was bolted to the rear door, right in the center, creating a distinctive spotting feature.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:31 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
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Location: Inwood, W.Va.
So many cars--may have missed it if it was previously listed, but here's one more:

Pilgram, later rebuilt as Pere Marquette 2 (office car), later Chesapeak & Ohio 16, last listed as Ferrocarril del Pacifico No. 190, Sonora; available photos date from 1981-1982, so we don't know if it's around, but it might be.

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=3616440

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=3616439

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=1595216

EDIT: Later became Nacionales de Mexico No. 190, Sonora, photographed as preserved at a railway museum in Puebla, Mexico, in 2004.

http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?m ... _18_04.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
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Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Maybe another one, also in Mexico:

Mount Hood: Rebuilt as New York Central 19 (office car), then to NdeM 3522 Presidente Alvaro Obregon; photographed as recently as 2013. Note that this car has the same name as a later Spokane, Portland & Seattle lightweight car, No. 600, on the existing Great Northern lightweight car thread.

http://rrpicturearchives.net/rspicture.aspx?id=229611

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=755548


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:11 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
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Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Charles Thompson: (C&O service), 10s-DR-2DBR, to NdeM 3578, Rio Sabinas, photographed in 2007:

http://rrpicturearchives.net/rspicture.aspx?id=229615

Unknown: Plan 3979A 8S-1DR-2Comp, rebuilt as ambulance car NdeM No. 3562 Servicio Medico Ambulante, photographed in 1982:

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=2688608

Unknown: 8S-1DR-2Comp, rebuilt as office car NdeM 3582 El Hidrocalido. photographed in 2007:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rspict ... ?id=229617

Unknown: "ex-M.P./I.G.N. Pullman Spa," later NdeM 3512 Presidente Avila Camacho, photographed in 2007:

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=755630


Last edited by J3a-614 on Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:19 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 366
Location: Morganton, N.C.
"...photographed in 2007:"

Ah... no.

Date uploaded to RR Picture Archives.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:25 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
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Location: Inwood, W.Va.
jmlaboda wrote:
"...photographed in 2007:"

Ah... no.

Date uploaded to RR Picture Archives.


DARN! Hope it helps to add to the list, though, let's hope the cars are at least mostly still around.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:56 pm 
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Thanks, J3a, for the info on Pilgrim!

230. Pilgrim [sic]* (Lot #4490, Plan #2502C, 1917, pvt. car, PM)--sold to E.B. McLean (1922) to PM #2 to C&O #16 to FCP #190 to NdeM #190 to Puebla RR Museum

Here's another picture of the #190 in Puebla: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2376955 (Mauricio Burguete photo)

*Jerry LaBoda's website has the spelling as Pilgram, and the Pullman Project CCR database has the spelling as Pilgrim.

The only other heavyweights I could locate pictures of that are either at the museum in Puebla or still in active use and based at the shops/station in Puebla are:

1. FNM business car #3520 (ex-Asarco, nee-Alder & Arco #5000), seen here in Puebla at the station in 2007: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=778203 (Emmanuel de la Vega-Gonzalez photo)

2. A business car painted as BAR Guadalajara (history unknown): http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=778193 (Emmanuel de la Vega-Gonzalez photo)--anyone know the history of this car??

3. There is at least one heavyweight sleeper at the museum in Puebla, but from the one photograph I found I can't make out the name--http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2668/3689817889_0ebd8c152f_o.jpg (Raul Harrison photo)--anyone know the history??

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:07 pm 

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Location: Morganton, N.C.
"*Jerry LaBoda's website has the spelling as Pilgram, and the Pullman Project CCR database has the spelling as Pilgrim."

I'll get that fixed...

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:35 pm 

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Quote:
36. John Greenleaf Whittier (Lot #6220, Plan #3410B, 1929, 12S-1DR, PRR)--sold to PRR #8836 (1948) to Ohio RY Mus (Columbus) to Worthington, OH


From page 3...

Now owned by Iowa Pacific, as SLRG 9168...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21761799@N07/8718324045

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:19 pm 
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Thanks, Jerry, for the info!

Tuscan Red still looks pretty good, if faded.

End cap rollers.

I wonder...

Besides SOU #2523 Glen Summit, Glen Saddell (still pending), PRR #8836 John Greenleaf Whittier, and Palm Lane (on long term lease from CNY Chapter), are there any additional heavyweight sleepers that have been acquired by Iowa Pacific/SLRG, either already listed as a survivor in this thread or otherwise??

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:27 pm 

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 11:27 am
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Location: Switching the Coach Yard
Tim Andrews wrote:

The original 960421 was the former coach 1045 (ex-SEA ISLAND) which is at LASTA. I think the 960420 (1st) ex-1038 may be in Knoxville (ETA or Hayneshopcat?) along with at least one sister. I think those cars came to them from Mid America.


I really wish I had time to type up the 18 pages of disposition records I have on Southern and its subsidiaries heavyweight Pullmans -- I'd guess its 90%+ of them accounted for. Unfortunately not enough hours in the day and too much work to do.

Anyway, Southern 1038 and 1040 are indeed in Oak Ridge. Here is the pedigree, including one as yet unsolved SR passenger car mystery:

Windsor Locks 1918 - 4027/4531 - 10 section-restaurant. WFL 10/53 and converted to 52 seat coach 1038 at Hayne in 1954. Retired and assigned to the Knoxville, Tennessee derrick outfit as rider car SOU 960420. The derrick outfit was retired in the fall of 1995 and the car sold to Chuck Jensen April 24, 1996. Car ownership transferred to MALX Evensville, IN, date unknown. Later sold to East Tennessee Rail Car Services, Inc., Oak Ridge, TN.

Francois Xavier Martin 1929 - 3584B/6284 - 10-2. WFL 10/53 and converted to 52 seat coach 1040 at Hayne in 1954. Prior to retirement from revenue service, the car was re-numbered to 1039. (Note 1039 was changed to 1040 -- they swapped them) The car was assigned 1/80 to the Danville, KY derrick outfit as rider car SOU 960423. The outfit was re-assigned to Chattanooga, TN in late 1994 and retired altogether in late 1995. The car sold to Chuck Jensen April 24, 1996. Car ownership transferred to MALX Evensville, IN, date unknown. Later sold to East Tennessee Rail Car Services, Inc., Oak Ridge, TN.

The $64,000 question is why they swapped the numbers on 1039 and 1040.

ETA


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:54 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
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Location: Morganton, N.C.
This is from the roster presented in the Trains magazine article, June 2013. A couple of the names don't show up in Tom Madden's Pullman Car Construction Records...

154. SLRG 9166 Poplar Summit
192. SLRG 9167 Donizetti
36. SLRG 9168 John Greenleaf Whittier
SLRG 9169 Euopolis Not its Pullman name
SLRG 9170 University Club
27. SLRG 9171 Glen Alta
91. SLRG 9172 Glen Summit
152. SLRG 9173 Lake Terrell
151. SLRG 9174 Central Park
153. SLRG 9175 Nightstar
SLRG 9180 Country Club Not its Pullman name???
89. SLRG Palm Lane
71. SLRG Woodland
142. SLRG Glen Saddell
15. SLRG Dover Fort

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:56 pm 
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Thanks, ETA, for the info on Windsor Locks and Francois Xavier Martin!

Thanks, Jerry, for the info on Iowa Pacific's heavyweight sleeper acquisitions!

231. University Club (Lot #6274, Plan #3989A, 1929, 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs, PRR)--sold to PRR #8629 (1948) to unknown to SLRG #9170 (201?)

232. Eupolis [sic]* (Lot #4624, Plan #2411C, 1921, 12S-1DR-1C, PRR)--sold to PRR #8706 (1948) to unknown to SLRG #9169 (201?)

*Looks like somewhere along the way an "o" got added to the spelling.

233. Anthracite Club (Lot #6274, Plan #3989U, 1929, 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs, PRR, ex-Country Club)--sold to PRR #8620 (1948) to unknown to SLRG #9180 (201?)

I searched the CCR database for all cars with "Country Club" in the name and came up with a total of nine. Two were sold to NdeM from NYC/Big Four, of six total sold to CCC&StL at the 12/31/1948 divestiture. Two were sold to SOU on 12/31/1948 as #2507 and #2508. The only one acquired by PRR on 12/31/1948 was Anthacite Club, which had been renamed in 1940 from Country Club. The eight other cars all had prefixes on their "Country Club" names; for example, Pepper Pike Country Club and Ashland Country Club (the two cars sold to SOU). The car sold to PRR was the only car without a prefix, just that it had been renamed before the divestiture.

I can only guess that line items 231-233 were acquired by SLRG from the same place, as they all share the common PRR heritage.

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