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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:21 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Thanks, Matt, for the info on Glen Saddell!

Thanks, Bulby, for the info on Glen Alta!

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:18 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Three More Survivors:

322. McCord (Lot #4763, Plan #3410, 1924, 12S-1DR)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Alaska RR #92 Lake Minchumina (1956) to Museum of Alaska Transportation & Industry (Wasilla, AK)

323. Flotow (Lot #4833, Plan #3523A, 1924, 6C-3DR)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Alaska RR #91 Mt. Iliamna (1955) to private owner in Nenana, AK

324. Raphael (Lot #4887, Plan #3523A, 1925, 6C-3DR)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Alaska RR #90 Mt. Susitna (1955) to private owner in Nenana, AK

Pictures & Diagrams:

1. One of the two 6C-3DR sleepers in Nenana, sans trucks, the second car is to the right: http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/41751046.jpg (Scotch Canadian photo) (click once to enlarge)

2. Alaska RR diagram for sleepers #90 and #91 (from 4/1957): http://www.alaskarails.org/fp/passenger/pass-retired/eng-drwg-90-91.jpg (John Combs collection)

3. Alaska RR diagram for sleeper #92 (from 4/1957): http://www.alaskarails.org/fp/passenger/pass-retired/eng-drwg-92.jpg (John Combs collection)

4. #92 Lake Minchumina while in storage after retirement: http://www.alaskarails.org/fp/passenger/pass-retired/TS-sleeper-92.jpg (Thomas Smith photo)

5. #91 Mt. Iliamna while in storage after retirement: http://www.alaskarails.org/fp/passenger/pass-retired/TS-sleeper-91.jpg (Thomas Smith photo)

6. #90 Mt. Susitna being offloaded at Seward in September 1955: http://www.alaskarails.org/fp/passenger/pass-retired/UK-90.jpg (John Combs collection) (click once to enlarge)

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Trainorders thread on Alaska RR's overnight Midnight Sun: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3062755

3. John Combs' roster of retired Alaska RR passenger cars: http://alaskarails.org/fp/passenger/passenger-roster-retired.html

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:41 am 
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Located a picture on Flickr of the #92 Lake Minchumina at the museum: https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8210/8151863686_ae2df0d8ec_o.jpg (Marc Hagen photo) (click once to enlarge)

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:46 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Update:

I received information the other day that the two Alaska RR 6C-3DR sleepers in Nenana, Mt. Iliamna and Mt. Susitna (line item numbers 323 and 324 respectively) were most likely scrapped sometime in early 2010, although this has not been confirmed.

Mystery Car:

325. Located at the former B&O passenger depot in Huntington, WV, which is now the visitors center. Elk River Coal & Lumber 2-8-2 #10 (Toledo, Angola & Western #100) is also at the depot. The sleeper is painted as B&O with the name Collis P. Huntington. Does anyone know the identity of this car?

Photos:

1. Side view of the Collis P. Huntington: https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2726/4411768359_e2d3fbe05d_o.jpg (Chuck & Alice Riecks photo) (click once to enlarge)

2. Platform end and angled side view of the Collis P. Huntington: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/attachments/fullsize/698000/DSCN5398.JPG (B&O Bill photo)*

*A Trainorders subscription is necessary to view the second photo.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:02 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
On 9/7/2012, Ed Ellis posted on Trainorders a photo of Iowa Pacific's 6S-6DB SLRG #9166 Poplar Summit (line item #154) in the Alamosa car shop, with structural repairs underway, before the installation of new side sheets: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/attachments/fullsize/681000/poplar_summit_New_Structural_Steel.JPG*

*A Trainorders subscription is necessary to view the picture.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:15 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:22 pm
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More detailed photographs of the car in Huntington WV.


Dean Levin


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:57 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Thanks, Dean, for posting the photos of the Collis P. Huntington!

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:36 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 366
Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
184. Defender (Lot #3986, Plan #4019S, 1912/33, rest-plr, PRR, ex-Glenolden)--sold to PRR #7014 (1945) to AC&W #7014 Pinehurst


I found this tonight and thought I better mention the correction. it actually should be:

184. Defender (Lot #3986, Plan #4019S, 1912/33, rest-plr, PRR, ex-Glenolden)--sold to PRR #7014 (1945) to AC&W #7014 Defender, to AC&W Pinehurst (so far, no number)

http://www.acwr.com/images/stories/infrastructure/passenger-cars/acwr-defender.jpg
http://rrpicturearchives.net/rspicture.aspx?id=493286
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2252152
https://www.flickr.com/photos/23711298@N07/4198893438/

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:52 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Thanks, Jerry, for the info on the Defender/Pinehurst!

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 12:28 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Some additional info:

54. Gothic Peak (Lot #6031, Plan #3584A, 1927, 10S-2DR)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to AT&SF and converted to coach #1129 (1953) to MofW #194286 to GGRM to Niles Canyon

96. Old Elm Club (Lot #4484, Plan #4026C, 1917/32, 10S-buf-lng, ex-Miloma)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to MILW and converted to business car Indiana (1955) to R. Dringenburg-Midland RY Historical Association (Baldwin City, KS) recently listed for sale on Ozark Mountain Railcar

Another survivor:

326. Bambrough (Lot #4149, Plan 2410, 1913/42, 12S-1DR)--Tourist #2502 retained (12/31/1948)--sold to CRI&P (1954) to D. Dusenberry-Midland RY Historical Association (Baldwin City, KS)

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:31 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Where Is It Now?:

327. Mt. Peale (Lot #4998, Plan #3521A, 1926, 10S-buf-lng-obs)--sold to C&EI and converted to business car #354 (1948) to Crow-Woodbridge Enterprises, Incorporated as IC #28 and renamed Jo-Vi-La (#800147)

While searching for the car's current whereabouts, I found a reference to an STB document from 1975 pertaining to the car's ownership:

Description Page

PDF File

The document concerns a Security Agreement between the owners of said car, Crow-Woodbridge Enterprises, Inc. (Olympia, WA) and Midwest Rail Car Leasing, Inc. (University City, MO).

Does anybody know the disposition or current wherabouts of the Mt. Peale/Jo-Vi-La? Thanks in advance.

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Jerry LaBoda's photo links website: http://passcarphotos.info/

3. Stan Garner's #800xxx-series car listings: http://www.movie-trains.com/pvlist.html

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:30 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Rainier Rails wrote:
110. Norman W. Kittson (Lot #6249, Plan #3990, 1929, barber-buf-sol-lng-obs, SOU)--sold to SOU and converted to business car #15 (1945) to NS #15 to executive sleeper #9 Alabama (#800769)


There might be a conflict with the history of the above car:

Looking at Jerry LaBoda's website again, on the page for SOU business cars, the Norman W. Kittson is listed as being converted to SOU business car #4, then renumbered to #15, then back to #4 with the name Middleborough.

On the page for NS business cars, the SOU #4/#15/#4 is listed as converted to NS executive sleeper #9 Alabama.

However, Stan Garner's #800xxx-series car listings shows the SOU #4/#15/#4 as sold into private ownership as the #4 Boonesborough. However, Garner does not list the #4/#15/#4 as being converted from the Norman W. Kittson.

Hmm...

Well, looking at the photographic evidence, here's what I found:

Jerry's SOU business page has a link to a photo of SOU #4/#15/#4 in private ownership as the Boonesborough:

June 2005 on the Austin Steam Train-Austin & Texas Central in Burnet: http://rr-fallenflags.org/sout/sou-boone-acs.jpg

Note that the Boonesborough, although modernized, retains riveted sides.

Looking for photos of the SOU #4/#15/#4 before being sold into private ownership, found one while the car was leased to Auto Train:

February 1972 at Sanford: http://www.themetrains.com/images/auto/jackowski/jackowski-auto-train-15-leased-southern-15-sanford_fl_021272_088_1024x.jpg (Stan Jackowski photo) (click once to enlarge)

Again, riveted as compared to smooth sides, so the Boonesborough now on the A&TC would appear to indeed be the SOU #4/#15/#4, other features like window arrangements also being the same.

Some photos of the SOU #15/NS #9 executive sleeper Alabama, just for comparison (note the smooth sides):

As SOU #15 Alabama, November 1979, in Atlanta, hallway side: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3387514 (Jerry LaBoda collection)

As SOU #15 Alabama, October 1985, in Atlanta, hallway side: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3450931 (Bob Hasty photo)

As NS #9 Alabama, August 2010, in Altoona, bedroom side: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2212572 (Brandon Kaback photo)

As NS #9 Alabama, September 2010, in Allentown, PA, bedroom side: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2243794 (Collin Reinhart photo)

As NS #9 Alabama, October 2011, in Columbia, SC, hallway side: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2792868 (Jonathan Hinely photo)

So, the question this leaves: was the business car #4/#15/#4 now on the A&TC converted from the Norman W. Kittson, or was the executive sleeper #15/#9 Alabama converted from the Norman W. Kittson?

Can anyone clarify? Thanks in advance.

Sources:

1. Jerry LaBoda's photo links website: http://passcarphotos.info/

2. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

3. Stan Garner's #800xxx-series car listings: http://www.movie-trains.com/pvlist.html

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:31 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 366
Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
Can anyone clarify? Thanks in advance.


Image

Let me dig through my notes and see what I can come up with...

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:04 am
Posts: 84
According to my office car records:
Alabama:
On the NS diagram dated 12/85 the all bedroom sleeper NS 9 is former Sou 15. It references Sou SP-40061 which shows that the car Alabama was created from Modernized Coach 1044 at Hayne 10-15-79 and that Coach 1044 was converted from the Pullman "Moon Brooke Club" at Hayne 4-15-55. It is interesting that the index page of the Southern diagram book (which was received at Hayne Shop 5/9/83) the Computer Report Number is P00015 but the car number is shown as Alabama. Someone has handwritten a numbers next to a number of cars which has previously been only named cars. Diagrams for the Virginia and Carolina show them as receiving numbers 1 and 1A on 5/31/79 while the other named cars, some of which where built after that date still show only names with the car numbers written in at some point.

Southern equipment diagram 31-F-30 was created on 2/4/47 and shows office car 4 as being rebuilt at hayne from the Kittson. Diagram 34-F-33 for car 15 dated August 1965 shows the car as being converted at Hayne 2-22-47 and renumbered car 15 6-5-53 I show it as retired in 1972 and it is marked off the digram index hand dated as 1/29/73. I show the car going to Arthur Boone who named it Boonesborough. I suspect he had to have a car number so he returned to the cars original number, 4.

Isn't Southern Railway office car lineage "fun"?

Tim Andrews
Chattanooga, TN

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:30 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Thanks, Tim, for the info on the Norman W. Kittson and the Moon Brook Club!

That being the case, we have:

110. Norman W. Kittson (Lot #6249, Plan #3990, 1929, barber-buf-sol-lng-obs, SOU)--sold to SOU (1945) and converted to business car #4 (1947) renumbered to #15 (1st) (1953) leased to Auto Train (1972) sold to Arthur Boone #4 and named Boonesborough (#800026), located on Austin Steam Train-Austin & Texas Central (Burnet, TX)

328. Moon Brook Club (Lot #4531, Plan #4025T, 1918/32, 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs, ex-Elmbank)--sold to SOU #2510 (1948) converted to coach #1044 (1955) converted to executive sleeper #15 Alabama (2nd) (1979) to NS #9 Alabama (#800769)

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

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