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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:23 pm 
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Rainier Rails wrote:
On Wednesday, January 31st, 2018, 10th Post on Page #35, VinylRailfan wrote:
-Unknown Parlor-Obs. (Ameristar Casino, Kansas City) (Wood)

Hmm, did a quick search and couldn't find anything. I haven't been assigning line item numbers to the several surviving all-wood or wood-and-steel-composite cars which have come up in this thread, but of course I'll make some inquiries as to what car this is.



Ted, if it is helpful, here is a link to a photo of this car.
-https://www.flickr.com/photos/noodle-edge/4085196142/in/photostream/
And I stand corrected for calling it a Wood car as it certainly appears to be a steel car.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:51 am 
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Hmm...interesting...it could be an all-steel car or a wood car later rebuilt with steel sheathing. I see in the photo that they claim it was built in 1898, but I've learned to take claimed dates with a grain of salt until the history is confirmed (like when it's claimed a car was used by a specific President).

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:52 am 
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jayrod wrote:
Thanks for the sleuthing on this, guys. I'll update my records. If I where to guess, both were acquired by Art Davis/Dabo from Conrail in the early to mid '80s.

Just so you know, both the Parkesburg and Trenton are slated to be scrapped, likely sometime next summer. Both are too far gone and are a hazard. Right now we're working on stripping out what's left of usable sections, chunks, pieces and bits that can be used by others elsewhere for restorations. The cars are pretty well scavenged at this point.

Thanks for the additional info and update, Eric.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:01 am 
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Txhighballer wrote:
The BBQ restaurant where the "Intrepid" is located has just closed. Also there is a former SP bay window caboose. The cars sit literally five feet from the former SP line to Hearne.

Thanks for the update.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:47 am 
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On Wednesday, January 31st, 2018, 10th Post on Page #35, VinylRailfan wrote:
-A Mystery Car at the Oklahoma Science Museum

A quick search on Flickr turned up one photo of this car, which is lettered as business car #4. No other info. A search of the museum's website says that it is a "fully-restored 1929 Pullman parlor car", but the name isn't given, so those 2 things would seem to contradict each other. A search through archived versions of the museum's old website didn't result in any more info.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pianoforte/28583191592/

https://www.sciencemuseumok.org/exhibits

https://web.archive.org/web/20060503223129/http://www.omniplex.org:80/exhi_deta.htm?m=t&id=2453501.61240741

I don't think this car has been brought up before. But until it's confirmed it came from the Pullman-owned fleet and not a typical RR-owned business car, I won't assign a line item number. I'll make inquiries elsewhere about this car as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:16 am 

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VinylRailfan wrote:
Rainier Rails wrote:
On Wednesday, January 31st, 2018, 10th Post on Page #35, VinylRailfan wrote:
-Unknown Parlor-Obs. (Ameristar Casino, Kansas City) (Wood)

Hmm, did a quick search and couldn't find anything. I haven't been assigning line item numbers to the several surviving all-wood or wood-and-steel-composite cars which have come up in this thread, but of course I'll make some inquiries as to what car this is.



Ted, if it is helpful, here is a link to a photo of this car.
-https://www.flickr.com/photos/noodle-edge/4085196142/in/photostream/
And I stand corrected for calling it a Wood car as it certainly appears to be a steel car.


Click forward about four photos. The raised panel interior, and the amount of carving, would seem to indicate a steel sheathed wood car. The wood interiors in steel cars were typically much plainer.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:19 am 
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Dennis Storzek wrote:
Click forward about four photos. The raised panel interior, and the amount of carving, would seem to indicate a steel sheathed wood car. The wood interiors in steel cars were typically much plainer.

Oh yes, it would.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/noodle-edge/4085188356/

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:53 am 
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Rainier Rails wrote:
On Wednesday, January 31st, 2018, 10th Post on Page #35, VinylRailfan wrote:
-A Mystery Car at the Oklahoma Science Museum

A quick search on Flickr turned up one photo of this car, which is lettered as business car #4. No other info. A search of the museum's website says that it is a "fully-restored 1929 Pullman parlor car", but the name isn't given, so those 2 things would seem to contradict each other. A search through archived versions of the museum's old website didn't result in any more info.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pianoforte/28583191592/

https://www.sciencemuseumok.org/exhibits

https://web.archive.org/web/20060503223129/http://www.omniplex.org:80/exhi_deta.htm?m=t&id=2453501.61240741

I don't think this car has been brought up before. But until it's confirmed it came from the Pullman-owned fleet and not a typical RR-owned business car, I won't assign a line item number. I'll make inquiries elsewhere about this car as well.

ID’ed the car (with help from Justin Sobeck). MP business car #4, built by Pullman in 1929, later modernized, later sold to International Rail Cruises, later resold to Midwest Travel Service as the “Soonerland”. Built as a business car, not rebuilt from a Pullman-owned parlor, so the museum’s website is a little misleading. This article (on the museum’s website, found by Justin) unraveled this particular mystery. (Plus, a check for photos of the #4 before it went to the museum [I had one such slide in my collection, turns out] confirmed it visually.)

https://www.sciencemuseumok.org/news/all-aboard-at-science-museum-oklahoma-museum-offers-tours-of-historic-train-car-through-jan-1?fbclid=IwAR2OK6RIEyXTE7oFzJEP9-8IMRWdh89cOhRfxojA95SXiGksRcmFH1-tmEY

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:15 am 
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Rainier Rails wrote:
On Sunday, January 28th, 2018, 10th Post on Page #34, VinylRailfan wrote:
Apologies for bumping this thread, but I've seemed to have run across some other cars not mentioned previously.

All of the cars are unknown, and what I do know is to the best of my knowledge, so any further light that can be shed upon them would be greatly appreciated.

-A Solarium Observation at a real-estate firm in Woody Creek, CO (near Aspen), it appears to be of a similar plan to the Mt. Series cars (that of 10 Section-Solarium Obs.) but I cannot confirm that.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mjstein1/29236263876/in/photostream/ (Michael Stein photo)

422. This isn't a Plan #2521/#3521 10S sleeper lounge observation, but either a Plan #4025 or #3989 8S sleeper restaurant lounge solarium observation.

Justin Sobeck pointed out there is another car adjacent, which is ex-UP business car #113 (2nd), exx-#105 (2nd), exxx-#119 (1st), nee-Anita M. Baldwin “Anoakia” (AC&F, 1919). Originally built for the Bureau of Mines but not delivered, rebuilt by Hotchkiss, Blue & Company that same year for Ms. Baldwin. It was retired by the UP in June 1970, and was sold to a Houston Allred of Wichita Falls, TX, in March 1971. Old thread from years ago concerning the “Anoakia”: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3421 And info on the car from Don Strack’s Utah Rails website.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:44 am 

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Hotchkiss, Blue & Company

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:25 pm 
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Darn, missed a typo.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:23 am 
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An Update:

On Monday, January 6th, 2014, 11th Post on Page #3, Rainier Rails wrote:
81. Kenova (Lot #4014, Plan #2410, 1912/42, 12S-1DR, GN)--Tourist #1439 sold to GN and converted to baggage #475 (1948) to BN MofW #976060 (1973) to Standard Rail Services (1985) to Pacific Railroad Preservation Association #475 Kenny Prager to pvt. owner #475 (located near Portland, OR)
On Saturday, June 14th, 2014, 11th Post on Page #18, Rainier Rails wrote:
Where Is It Now?:

327. Mt. Peale (Lot #4998, Plan #3521A, 1926, 10S-buf-lng-obs)--sold to C&EI and converted to business car #354 (1948) to Crow-Woodbridge Enterprises, Incorporated as IC #28 and renamed Jo-Vi-La (#800147)

While searching for the car's current whereabouts, I found a reference to an STB document from 1975 pertaining to the car's ownership:

Description Page

PDF File

The document concerns a Security Agreement between the owners of said car, Crow-Woodbridge Enterprises, Inc. (Olympia, WA) and Midwest Rail Car Leasing, Inc. (University City, MO).

Does anybody know the disposition or current wherabouts of the Mt. Peale/Jo-Vi-La? Thanks in advance.
On Sunday, September 21st, 2014, 2nd Post on Page #24, jmlaboda wrote:
PULL Mt. Peale was rebuilt by C&EI to business car 354 and later sold (after the split between MoPac and L&N).
On Sunday, September 21st, 2014, 3rd Post on Page #24, Rainier Rails wrote:
327. Mt. Peale (Lot #4998, Plan #3521A, 1926, 10S-buf-lng-obs)--sold to C&EI (1948) WFL date not listed, rebuilt to business car #354 (when??) sold to private ownership (when??) and named Jo-Vi-La (#800147)

I have not been able to find any recent info on this car

First off, back in 2015 there was a thread over on Trainorders showing that this car as of several years before that was stored in Portland, OR, along with 2 others, both of which are also surviving Pullmans, the Plan #3974F Mission Santa Ynez (line item #103) and the former Kenova.

More recently, a photo was posted on RR Picture Archives showing that the former Mt. Peale is now stored in Chehalis, WA, as DLJX #354, and behind it is the former Kenova as DLJX #475: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4960752 (J Fischer photo)

Finally, the "Private Passenger Car Annual" provided a little more info on the initial post-CGW ownership.

327. Mt. Peale (Lot #4998, Plan #3521A, 1926, 10S-lng-obs)--sold to CGW and rebuilt to business car #354 (1948) resold to Joseph V. Lamantia as #28 and named Jo-Vi-La (unknown date) resold to Edmund J. Boyce, Jr. as #28 (unknown date) resold to Crow-Woodbridge Enterprises, Inc. as #28/#800147, Olympia, WA (unknown date) resold to unknown party, Portland, OR (unknown date) resold to DLJX as #354, Chehalis, WA (unknown date)

Sources:

1. "Private Passenger Car Annual Volume One: 1980" by David L. Briggs (RPC Publications, 1980)

2. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

3. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

4. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:34 am 
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2 Cars Identified:

On Friday, January 24th, 2014, 9th Post on Page #13, Rainier Rails wrote:
Another survivor (and a mystery at that):

277. ENTX #102 (this is one of the sleepers that was converted by the US Air Force for use as a flight simulator, of which there were at least two)--can anyone provide the identity/history of this car??--anyone know what ENTX stands for and which group is located in Bluefield, WV??--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=683037 (Jay Tester photo)
On Friday, January 24th, 2014, 10th Post on Page #13, jmlaboda wrote:
ENTX was used for the EnterTRAINment Line dinner train that formerly operated on the Maryland Midland. Finding out what the car's former number was will be needed if we are to identify which Pullman was rebuilt into it since the number "102" is not the number it would have carried as a DAFX car. Cars were generally numbered from 5 to 31 and also had a second car that I believe served as a generator - dorm - kitchen for the staff. There is also one on the Great Smoky Mtn. Rwy. with no number but the rest of the DAFX lettering is in place. It is used as a machine shop. If numbers for either car can be determined I can find out their history.

Hard to say why the car was in Bluefield... it is the only shot of the car and there is not any sort of museum up there, at least not that I have found as of yet.
On Friday, January 24th, 2014, 11th Post on Page #13, Alan Maples wrote:
I am pretty sure this is not Bluefield. The car is coupled on the right to the former PRR business car 7528 which was named "Catoctin" while in residence at the Maryland Midland as part of the EnterTrainment fleet. I think both of these cars went to the short lived Chesapeake Railroad (Greensboro, MD) and the business car later turned up at the Aberdeen, Carolina & Western. I would guess the photo is somewhere around Greensboro, MD, on the Chesapeake Railroad (PRR Easton Branch). The next photo in the photographer's album shows the business car and what appears to be the front end of the Chesapeake Railroad's Whitcomb locomotive. The album suggests the photographer used Bluefield as a default location for many of his pictures.
On Friday, January 24th, 2014, 12th Post on Page #13, Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Not only that, the guy has lots of photos default-dated as "Dec. 31, 2007" and uploaded in March 2007, meaning he uploaded them before he took them, including shots of Metroliners, T&P 610, C&O 2716, and N&W 611 and 1218 in action. The Metroliner is supposedly in Bluefield as well. So we can disregard almost any date and location this guy used unless you get lucky and can confirm otherwise.

I'm 99% certain that both the Catoctin and flight simulator photos were taken not on the Chesapeake RR, but on the Maryland Midland at Union Bridge, Md. before the EnterTrainMent rolling stock was sold off/dispersed/moved. I hate to say I "recognize" the piles of junk in the photos, but I'm having flashbacks, and Brother Payne, who had PRR Catalpa Falls there for a while, can also confirm my suspicions.

As I recall, the owners of these cars had stenciled on one or both ends during shipment "IF FOUND PLEASE DROP IN NEAREST MAILBOX OR CALL [name, phone #]".
On Thursday, February 5th, 2015, 12th Post on Page #28, Rainier Rails wrote:
A Mystery Car:

I'm not giving this car a line item number just yet. As has been discussed throughout the length of this thread, the SOU rebuilt many sleepers into business cars, coaches, and baggage cars. There are quite a few of these rebuilt cars left, especially the baggage cars, so looking at some of the details of this car, I'm wondering if it is indeed one of these rebuilt baggage cars. It is currently owned by the PCS Phosphate Company as AHCX #2006 and configured as a field training car.

Picture taken by Kermit Geary, Jr., at Sioux City, IA, on May 8th, 2004: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=244600
On Thursday, February 5th, 2015, 13th Post on Page #28, jmlaboda wrote:
This is not a Southern car.

Note the roof hatch to the right, above the "P" emblem on the right end of the car... the roof hatch, the large door to the left of the slogan and the roofwalk are all indicators that this is a former Department of the Air Force flight simulator car support cars. Here is a link to a surviving car...

https://d38ls2kcjnhfdj.cloudfront.net/1b3d6fed-a0db-448e-8247-2812d8c07901.JPG

Also the car has Pullman pediment ends... these were typically replaced by Southern on cars that they converted to head-end cars (baggage - express and mail storage) and the same was true of cars rebuilt into modernized passenger cars, coaches, coach - dinette, business cars and the like.
On Friday, February 6th, 2015, 14th Post on Page #28, Rainier Rails wrote:
Thanks, Jerry, for the info!

Earlier in this thread we had discussed another one of these ex-USAF cars (one of the simulators) which had been rebuilt from a Pullman and was later owned by the Entertrainment Line as ENTX #102 (line item #277). The car couldn't be identified, as the ENTX number didn't line up with the original USAF number. That being said, as far as I know, all of the simulator and simulator support cars were rebuilt from Pullmans, so the car now owned by PCS would fall within the parameters of this thread, so...

391. USAF simulator support car as AHCX #2006--full history unknown

In addition, the photo linked to by Jerry is of the ex-USAF simulator support car now owned by the Utah State Railroad Museum in Ogden. This car came up in another thread, which was started back in April 2003: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5644

It was mentioned that there were several cars at Hill AFB in Ogden, then Boyd Owens mentioned that USRM had one (last post on first page). When the thread came back up in May of last year, I found the following info on the USRM car on their website:

Utah State Railroad Museum wrote:
U.S.A.F. TARGET/BAGGAGE CAR

Originally a Baltimore and Ohio baggage car. It was converted for use as a scoring crew support car for the Strategic Air Command (SAC). The scoring crew evaluated the performance of the B-52 bombing crew as they “bombed” the target car. It was once filled with electronic monitoring equipment.

The info was found on this page: http://theunionstation.org/utah-state-railroad-museum/rolling-stock/

Now, that being said, was the Ogden car actually rebuilt from a B&O baggage car, or was it rebuilt from a Pullman built for/assigned to the B&O? If the USRM website is correct, than does that mean the car now owned by PCS Phosphate was also a baggage car, not a Pullman? I'm inclined to think that both of these cars were not built as baggage cars, as pictures clearly show a blanked out/removed vestibule.
On Saturday, February 7th, 2015, 1st Post on Page #29, Rainier Rails wrote:
After talking with Jerry, I've assigned a line item number to the simulator support car DAFX #31 in Ogden:

392. DAFX #31, simulator support car, owned by Utah State RR Museum--full history unknown

I posted about these cars over in the "Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States" group on Facebook, and between replies there, and doing some research in both Madden's CCR database and the "Private Passenger Car Annual", I've identified DAFX #31, plus, thanks to Jacob Carey, the ENTX #102 has also been ID'ed.

As mentioned by Jerry LaBoda in the thread linked to in the above quotes, one of these DAFX cars was on the Great Smoky Mountains RR. Jacob ID'ed this as DAFX #13, and the GSMR still uses it as a tool/shop car. I compared Jacob's photos of the DAFX #13 to the photo of the ENTX #102 linked to in the quotes above, and I believe it's the same car. In one of Jacob's photos, of added PPCX #13 stenciling, one can see the "E" of ENTX where those larger letters were painted over when the new stencils were applied.

277. Wild Rose (Lot #6359, Plan #3979A, 1930, 8S-1DR-2C, Columbine)--listed by Madden as withdrawn/retired on 1/22/62, sold to U.S. government and rebuilt to simulator car DAFX #13, later acquired (unknown date) by Gus Novotny's EnterTRAINment Line on the MMID as ENTX #102, later acquired (unknown date) by the GSMR as PPCX #13.

When I made the initial post in the FB group, I failed to include that the car now at USMR is DAFX #31, which I then corrected with a follow-up post:

Rainier Rails wrote:
I have to provide a correction for the original post, the Air Force number for the car at USRM is known, DAFX #31. The problem is, the "Private Passenger Car Annual" by Briggs lists that the former Pullman ID for this car was unknown (at the time it was published in 1980).

I don't know if anyone ever did follow-up research that resulted in the history for #31 being determined.

The only other car in this series, DAFX #5 to #31, which did not have its Pullman history ID'ed by Briggs was DAFX #22, which was known to be an ex-Plan #3958A Alpine-series 14S sleeper, but not specifically which one. But, if like the #13 ex-Wild Rose above, it was acquired from Pullman at the same time, January 1962, according to both Madden and Wayner, the Alpine Clover has such a retirement/withdrawal date, again on 1/22/62.

Also, doing some further looking, a total of 12 sleepers are listed by Madden as withdrawn in January and February 1962, and including the Alpine Clover, 11 of those 12 account for 11 of the 27 sleepers that were rebuilt to this DAFX series.

The only 1 of those 12 cars with a withdrawal date from that time frame that isn't listed by Briggs as being rebuilt to a DAFX car is the Plan #3979A 8-1-2 John M. Forbes (Lot #6334, 1929). To me, it seems logical to assume that it could very well have been the car that was rebuilt as DAFX #31.

One last side note, for DAFX #25, Briggs lists it as the ex-John Sutter, but a question mark is noted for what the room/space configuration was, as its actual Pullman name was Captain John Sutter (Plan #3410 12-1, Lot #4762, 1924, ex-St. Leon, listed as sold to the U.S. gov't in 12/61).

So, given that, DAFX #31 is most likely:

392. John M. Forbes (Lot #6334, Plan #3979A, 1929, 8S-1DR-2C, Aristocrat)--listed by Madden as withdrawn/retired on 2/6/62, sold to U.S. government and rebuilt to simulator support car DAFX #31, later acquired (unknown date) by the USRM

I'm thinking, though unconfirmed, that the DAFX #31 now in Ogden could very well have been one of the cars that was formerly stored at Hill AFB.

Besides these 2 ID'ed cars, and the unidentified simulator support car AHCX #2006, there have been multiple posts here and within the FB group that indicate that there are at least a few more of these cars remaining on various bases, including one pair (a simulator car and a support car) at Fairchild AFB, and regarding that pair, waiting on some photos which may ID their DAFX numbers so their Pullman ID's may be posted here.

Sources:

1. "Private Passenger Car Annual Volume One: 1980" by David L. Briggs (RPC Publications, 1980)

2. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

3. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

4. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:50 am 
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Car Identified:

On Tuesday, August 26th, 2014, 13th Post on Page #21, Rainier Rails wrote:
Here's an interesting car:

Thread from February 2003: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5109

This was among the MILW and SOO equipment privately owned in Rockford, IL, at least some of which ended up being moved to the Colfax RR Museum.

Two possibilities for how this car was modified:

As posted in that thread by Peter Nicholson:

Peter Nicholson wrote:
I have been in the car - it is a kitbashed Pullman converted to MofW service with a new end fabricated at Milwaukee Shops using the 1934-pattern streamlined coach design.

As posted in that thread by Thomas Manz:

Thomas Manz wrote:
This appears to be most of an old 10-1-(-) sleeping car, and a short piece of a lightweight, open-platform branch line combine. The combos were built at the Milwaukee shops (in Milwaukee) in the mid-1930s. This bizarre mating must have been done in the 50s/60s, when combines for mixed trains were no longer in demand.

Well, using the 10-1-x configuration noted, here's what Tom Madden's CCR database tells us:

The Milwaukee Road acquired at the 12/31/1948 Pullman divestiture a total of 14 sleepers of the 10S-1DR-1C configuration (all from Lot #6043, to Plan #3973C, and all painted "MILW Std.").

Just for reference, there were a total of 30 10-1-1 sleepers built in Lot #6043, all originally for service on the Milwaukee Road; 14 of the other 16 cars were sold to: ACL (1), C&O (2), ERIE (5), NYC (4), and UP (2). The 2 remaining cars remained in Pullman ownership until listed as sold to scrap dealers.

As for the 14 cars acquired by MILW, most did not last long in Pullman lease, with 12 withdrawn between January and April 1949. The 2 remaining cars, Big Rock and Des Moines, were also withdrawn at that time, but re-entered Pullman lease in April 1955, withdrawn again in May 1956, and the Big Rock was again in Pullman lease from September 1956 to September 1958.

What I don't have is more info on the disposition of Milwaukee's heavyweight cars, including sleepers, so pinning down the history of this car shall remain open ended.

Also, was this car among the Rockville equipment acquired by Colfax, or was it ultimately scrapped?

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any photos of the car in question.
On Wednesday, February 25th, 2015, 9th Post on Page #29, Rainier Rails wrote:
Mystery Cars:

396. MILW baggage-express #2051 is owned by the Milwaukee Road Heritage Center in Montevideo, MN. Does anybody know what sleeper the #2051 was converted from? Thanks in advance!

Pictures:

As MofW #958001 in UP Armour Yellow, hallway side: http://www.montevideomrhc.org/MountRushmoreandExpress/slides/Baggage%202.JPG

As MofW #958001 in UP Armour Yellow, bedroom side: http://www.montevideomrhc.org/MountRushmoreandExpress/slides/Baggage%2002.JPG

Returned to MILW Maroon & Orange, June 6th, 2009 (hallway side): http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1631823 (Matt Petersen photo)


I posted regarding the first car, the ex-10-1-1 in Rockford, in the "Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States" group on Facebook, and the former Pullman ID remains unknown, just that in MofW service it was #X-595, as posted by Justin Nelson. But, then I thought to ask about the second car, and Justin replied that records show the #958001 was modified from baggage car #1915. Wayner lists that the #1915 was rebuilt from:

396. Mississippi (Lot #6043, Plan #3973/C, 1927, 10S-1DR-1C, MILW)--sold to MILW (1948) rebuilt to baggage car #1915 (c. 1949) possibly to baggage-express #2051 (unknown date) to MofW #958001 (unknown date) acquired by the Milwaukee Road Heritage Center, Montevideo, MN (unknown date)

Justin further did say in regards to the first car that:

Justin Nelson wrote:
When the rest of the equipment was moved out, that car was scrapped. This info came from the owner. The 3 lightweight cars that were in Rockford with x-595 survived. One went to Colfax, WI and the other two were moved to the owners property outside Rockford.


Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:29 am
Posts: 16
Rainier Rails wrote:
Another potential survivor:

Lambs Club (Lot #6289, Plan #3992, 1929, plr [13]-buf-din [12]-lng [16], PRR)--sold to PRR #7007 (1945) to MofW #492061 (1956) sold to Midwest RY Historical Foundation (MRHF) (when??)

I recently acquired a slide taken on 5/26/1991 by Jay Brown of MRHF #7007 in Cleveland. Of course, MRHF is now the Midwest RY Preservation Society. Are there are any MRPS members on here, or anyone else for that matter, that can confirm that the #7007 is still in the group's collection? If not, was it sold to another party or scrapped?

Here's a scan of the slide, as uploaded here: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4259337

Image

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.


Don't know if this has been answered but yes, the Lambs Club still survives. It is at the Dennison Ohio Railroad Museum.
Source-http://dennisondepot.org/new_website/equipment/


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