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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:05 am 
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Thanks, ETA, for the clarification on the Greencastle!

Thanks, Les, for the clarification on the Inglehome!

Thanks, Jerry and ADM IV, for the clarifications on the Haselton!

So, that being the case:

141. Haselton (Lot #3814, Plan #2410, 1910/40, 12S-1DR, PRR)--Tourist #1527 sold to SAL (1947) to MofW #70673 to Tidewater Chapter NRHS painted in PRR Tuscan Red, modified with open platform, and used on the Bay Coast RY (Little Creek, VA)

Thanks, ADM IV, for the link to the picture album!

Thanks, JJ, for the clarification on the Palm Lane and the info on the Glen Saddell*!

142. Glen Saddell (Lot #4974, Plan #3523A, 1926, 6C-3DR, SAL)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Ruben Darby-Darby Wood Products (1967) to Adirondack Scenic to Iowa Pacific-SLRG--see here: http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=69309&p=772898 and here: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=390065 (Matt Giardino photo)

Adirondack Scenic owns:

143. Latcha (Lot #4969, Plan #3410A, 1926, 12S-1DR, PRR)--sold to PRR #8850 (1948) to MofW bunk #492616 to PC to Conrail to Adirondack Scenic and converted to open air coach, lettered as NYC #83--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=315690 (Matt Giardino photo)

144. B&O business car #905 which according to http://www.movie-trains.com/pvlist.html, was built as the East Newark (Lot #4868, Plan #3410A, 1925, 12S-1DR), which according to the CCR database was wrecked on the B&O at Waring's Siding, MD, in July 1944. The next car listed in Lot #4868, East Norwood, was sold to the B&O in 1948--did this car become B&O business car #905??--see here: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3178798 (Jeff Wilson photo)

RDGRAILFAN--

Lenover was built to Plan #2411, then #2411B, then rebuilt to Plan #3411 and renamed Villa Real then changed to Tourist #5141, which was sold to Wabash in 1953 as #5634. It later entered N&W MofW service after the merger. Herman Page and Al Sauer own this car.

Haselton [sic]* was built to Plan #2410, then changed to Tourist #1527, which was sold to SAL in 1947. It entered MofW service as #70673 and is now owned by the Tidewater Chapter NRHS

*Please note that the Pullman Project Car Construction Record (CCR) database spells Haselton with an "s", rather than with a "z". The CCR database was digitally transcribed by Tom Madden from the Pullman records collection at the Newberry Library in Chicago, so the "s" spelling is original to the Pullman Company.

Here's the link to the CCR database (downloadable Excel Spreadsheet): http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:26 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:56 am
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Location: Roanoke Va.
A little more info about the current status of "Lake Pearl". Work is now "holding" due to winter weather, but we plan to be rolling again on her come March, with a goal of completion of the exterior by June

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 749&type=3

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:19 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
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Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Thanks, Rainier Rails, for at least confirming that Glen Blair made it out of Brunswick, Md., though it would be nice to find if she survives today. At least she initially fared better than the unique B&O baggage cars that were there with her that got cut up; these were a short baggage car type, steel construction, maybe 40 feet long, with what looked like a passenger version of a Fox truck.

I am surprised to see just how many Pullman service cars are still around! Ed Ellis could have a field day just running that recreated Pullman service of his with heavyweights; now, if we could just convince him or someone else to run all this stuff with steam power. . .


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:57 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
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Location: Inwood, W.Va.
It's possible I missed it, but going through the list so far, I didn't see any mention of Meadow Lark, a Pullman 2 Comp-1DR-Lounge solarium observation car that was originally assigned to SPs Lark. Ownership is by Chesapeake Railway Association, with restoration work being performed by Walkersville Southern. Reportedly its lounge furniture is still in existence in an office building in Ohio, and there are efforts to bring that back to really restore the car correctly.

Photos of Meadow Lark and other Pullmans may be found here, but take note, apparently there is a current problem with the Railroad Pictures Archive site; my browser can't connect with the site for now.

http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/PULL1.htm

http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/PULL2.htm

http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/PULL3.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:05 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
J3a--

Meadow Lark is line item #104, back on page #3, in my second post. Thanks for the info about the furniture--didn't know about that.

I also noticed that RR Picture Archives was experiencing an outage.

Did some further looking around, and the LASTA website identifies the 6-3 sleeper in their collection as the Glen Pond, not the Glen Blair. Hmm.

Well, here's the interesting thing. Earlier this evening while searching for the Glen Blair, I found a link on Jerry LaBoda's website to this picture: http://www.bcoolidge.com/ANG%20Pix/ANG-Pullman%20Sleepers-Glen-Pond-Glen-Blair_11_28_64.jpg (Bob Coolidge photo). This photo, one of many that Bob took of the PRR specials coming into Philadelphia for the Army-Navy Game on that day, shows both the Glen Pond and Glen Blair!! (The first and second cars respectively--this photo is also used on the LASTA passenger car page: http://lasta.org/?page_id=206.) Just to be thorough, the PRR Tuscan Red-painted sleeper in front of the Glen Pond is the 6-3 Pershing Square, and the third Pullman Two-Tone Gray-painted sleeper behind the Glen Blair is the 6-3 Glen Athol! Hmm...I sense a theme...see here: http://www.bcoolidge.com/Trains%20PRR%20A-N%20Game%20Page.htm. How many times do you see a train with six 6C-3DR sleepers?!

So, getting back to the point: does anyone here know which of the two Glen-series 6-3 sleepers LASTA actually owns??

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:07 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
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Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Two other Pullmans may still be around, both of Baltimore & Ohio lineage.

One is Capitol City, which went through one of B&O's streamlining rebuildings, and which I recall seeing in a train some years back going somewhere, who knows where.

The only photo I could find of anything resembling Capitol City is this model shot of a 1938 Capital Limited equipment set, with solarium Capital Arms; Capital City didn't quite look like this when I saw it, having a sort of streamlined fin look around the rear door.

http://www.brasstrains.com/images/produ ... C03416.jpg

Another may or may not have been a Pullman as such, but was a rebuilt heavyweight of some kind, given a boat-tail end, and on a section of track for years in Hyndman, Pa. She looks like a Pullman of some kind--but what?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dwdavidson/5235766321/

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=111687

And that's a neat shot of those Glen-series cars, including the Glen Blair, which I got to walk through when it was in Brunswick. The car in the photo is how I remember it, in the later Pullman pool color scheme that was also used by NYC.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:49 am 
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J3a--

145. Capitol City (Lot #6275, Plan #3975T, 1929/38, 3C-1DR-buf-sol-lng-obs, B&O)--sold to B&O #3308 (1948) converted to coach #7406 to SMS Railroad Company--picture taken in Bridgeport, NJ, in March 2003: http://web.archive.org/web/20060214021326/http://www.jefflubchanskycpa.com/BOPRL-SMS-MR22-3DG571.jpg (Jeff Lubchansky photo)

Just looking through the LASTA website, here are the other two heavyweight sleepers in their collection:

146. Glacier (Lot #4763, Plan #3410, 1924, 12S-1DR, TCRY)--sold to SOU #2470 (1948) to LASTA

147. Sea Island (Lot #4296, Plan #4010, 1914/30, 6S-1DR-lng, SOU, ex-Seaboard, nee-Charing Cross)--sold to SOU #1045 (1948) to LASTA

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:05 am 
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An addition to the LASTA collection:

The Glen-series 6-3, the Glacier, and the Sea Island are all listed on their "Passenger Cars" page here: http://lasta.org/?page_id=206, however, there is another page called "745's Consist" at: http://lasta.org/?page_id=1873, and this provided an additional car:

148. Central House (Lot #4886, Plan #3959, 1925, 3C-2DR-lng-obs)--sold to US Government and converted to hospital ward car (1943) to LASTA and converted to hospitality car as LSTX #5 Jefferson--according to the LASTA website, this car carried the name Azalea while serving as a hospital ward car. I've never heard of the Government giving hospital cars names instead of numbers. Can anyone clarify??

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:27 am 
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Onc car that I excluded initially because I didn't have a current or near-current status was the:

Asheville (Lot #3848, Plan #2502, 1911, pvt. car, ex-Advance [1st])--sold to Algoma Central #552 Michipicoten (1944)

I know this car lasted for a long time on the ACR--see here: http://trainweb.org/algoma/proster.html

Does anyone know the current status of this car??

Pictures:

1. http://trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/ACR/michipicoten.jpg

2. http://algomacentral.railfan.net/images/AlgoCenRy/mich.jpg

3. http://trainweb.org/algoma/Images/Passenger/ac552.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:47 am 
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Here's another survivor that got missed initially because its no longer listed on the roster page:

Centburne (Lot #6205, Plan #3979A, 1928, 8S-1DR-2C, C&EI)--sold to SOO #1257 (1948) to Jack Stodelle and used in Mexico City Olympics specials (1967) named the Maria Elena by Jack Stodelle and Bob Berray to PSRM and located in Mexicali for excursions (1989)

Any more recent news on the Centburne??

PSRM passenger car roster page: http://www.sdrm.org/roster/passenger/

PSRM page on the Centburne: http://www.sdrm.org/roster/passenger/sl-1257/

Centburne painted as SBC #1257 Maria Elena: http://www.sdrm.org/roster/passenger/sl-1257/sl1257-1.jpg (Corrine Gallagher photo)

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:43 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:19 am
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Location: Scottsboro, AL
Rainier Rails wrote:
Regarding the W&W Cumberland Club:

130. Ellendale (Lot #4845, Plan #3410, 1925, 12S-1DR, PRR)--sold to PRR #8784 (1948) to Fred Winkler of the W&W as Cumberland Club--see here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=43508&p=448078



I purchased the Ellendale from a private owner in the mid-1980's and sold it a few years later to Fred Winkler, who restored the car from its PRR maintenance-of-way days. Fred passed away two years ago and it is my understanding the car is now part of the collection at SMS Rail.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:54 am 
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Some additional survivors in Pennsylvania and Ohio:

Please note, that until I have current status info on the ACR Michipicoten and the PSRM Maria Elena, I am starting with the next line item number after the Central House, which is No. 149.

149. White Castle (Lot #4574, Plan #4046A, 1920/36, 12S-2DB, NYC, ex-Auckland)--sold to P&LE (1948) to Ohio Central--was this car transferred to the collection at the roundhouse??

150. White Cloud (Lot #4574, Plan #4046A, 1920/36, 12S-2DB, NYC, ex-Fingal)--sold to P&LE (1948) to Strasburg RR Pequea Valley and painted in RDG Green & Gold for Reading Rambles later painted in PRR Tuscan Red to Harlansburg Station Transportation Museum

The museum at Harlansburg was mentioned in the discussion concerning ex-AT&SF coaches in commuter service, as the White Cloud is on a track adjacent track to the two Santa Fe coaches at the museum. On the same track as the White Cloud is a second heavyweight car in PRR Tuscan Red. Does anyone know the identity of this second car??

Photos of the White Cloud:

a. As Strasburg RR Pequea Valley in RDG Green & Gold: http://www.railcarphotos.com/pix/67/SRC%200_Reading%20PA_Matt%20Herson_1963-10-19_67775.jpg (Matt Herson photo) (click once to enlarge)

b. As Strasburg RR Pequea Valley in PRR Tuscan Red: http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/src_pequea_valley0.jpg (North East Rails photo)

c. At the museum in Harlansburg: http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/92877009.jpg (H. Frisco Rose photo) (click once to enlarge)

d. The second heavyweight at the museum: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2300/2363479733_6a27d82542_o.jpg (erjkprunczyk photo) (click once to enlarge)

Collection of the Lake Shore RHS:

151. Central Park (Lot #4886, Plan #3959E, 1925, 3C-2DR-lng-obs)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Chattahoochee Valley RR (1955) to LSRHS--see here: http://abpr.railfan.net/august06/08-07-06/US_Museum@North_East.PA_8-6-06--04.jpg (Bob C. photo) (click once to enlarge)

152. Lake Terrell (Lot #4770, Plan #3585L, 1924, 10S-2C-1DR)—retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Ruben Darby-Darby Wood Products (1967) to LSRHS--see here: http://rr-fallenflags.org/steamtown/lsrm-pulls-afh.jpg (Fallen Flags photo)

153. Nightstar (Lot #6056, Plan #3980C, 1927, 14SB, MILW)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Midwest Steel (1964) to LSRHS--see here: http://railfan.ca/cgi-bin/photo.cgi?North_East_24.06.06_2135.jpg&size=0 (David Graham photo) (click once to enlarge)

154. Poplar Summit (Lot #4845, Plan #4084A, 1925/39, 6S-6DB, ACL/PRR, ex-McClung)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Ruben Darby-Darby Wood Products (1967) to LSRHS--see here: http://rr-fallenflags.org/steamtown/lsrm-pulps-afh.jpg (Fallen Flags photo)

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:56 am 
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Thanks, Alan, for the info on the Ellendale!

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:06 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:04 am
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While my car is warming above three degrees:

Greencastle is owned by VLIX but is at TVRM painted NC&Stl.

SEA ISLAND at LASTA is a Southern Railway converstion to a modernized heavyweight coach.

There are a number of these conversions still around with most at SARM, TVRM, NS and GSMR.

Similarly the Southern gave away a large number of the baggage cars that were converted from Pullmans, usually three or four at a time.

I will post the TVRM items and what I know of the other dispositions tonight after I return from the frozen tundra (supposed to be 60 on Sunday)

Tim Andrews
Chattanooga

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:29 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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J3a-614 wrote:
Another may or may not have been a Pullman as such, but was a rebuilt heavyweight of some kind, given a boat-tail end, and on a section of track for years in Hyndman, Pa. She looks like a Pullman of some kind--but what?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dwdavidson/5235766321/

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=111687


This is B&O 3303, last reported in 2009 as headed to the West Va. RR Museum:

www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27996

Earlier discussion with history:

www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17477

Latest Bing (2012) and Google aerial views show the car still in Hyndman.....


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