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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:01 pm 
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Thanks, MRLX1020 and Jerry, for the info on NS #8 Tennessee!

175. National Park

Thanks, Stephen, for the info on the two ex-ACL mystery cars in Georgia!

Of the six Plan #4042 10-1-2 sleepers sold to ACL in 1948, so far only Columbia College has turned up in this discussion as a surviving car, one of four cars in private ownership in Colorado (the Columbia College is line item #10 back on page #3 of this thread).

Of the nine Plan #3979A 8-1-2 sleepers sold to ACL in 1948, none so far have turned up in this discussion.

Some Additional Survivors:

176. Camp Randal (Lot #3787, Plan #2477C, 1910/31, buf-sol-lng-obs, MILW, ex-Madison)--sold to MILW as 12S-1DR sleeper (1910) reconfigured to buf-sol-lng-obs (1931) to electrification department MofW #X420 Coast to private owner in Montana

177. Enumclaw (1915, 6S-1C-lng-obs, MILW, ex-Lake City, nee-Lake Andes)--sold to MILW (1915) to MofW kitchen-diner to William Von Seht to IRM

Enumclaw is a community in southern King County, WA, along the original alignment of the NP mainline between Stampede Pass and Tacoma.

Converted Cars:

178. Tasmania (Lot #4503, Plan #2410F, 1917/43, 12S-1DR, GN)--Tourist #2549 sold to GN and converted to baggage #480 under AFE* #76178 (1948) to BN #480 to MTM (1978)

a. MTM page on GN #480: http://www.mtmuseum.org/roster.php?page=gn480

b. GN diagram for converted baggage cars #476-#483: http://www.mtmuseum.org/jsr/roster/gn480_plan.gif (click once to enlarge)

c. Picture of #480 in BN Cascade Green "Hockey Stick" paint: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/bn480.jpg (A. Robert Johnson photo) (click once to enlarge)

d. Picture of #480 in BN Cascade Green "Hockey Stick" paint: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1828050 (John Hill photo)

*AFE stands for Authority For Expenditure

179. Archibald Guthrie (Lot #6373, Plan #4084B, 1930/39, 6S-6DB, GN)--sold to GN #1011 (1948) converted to business car #A30 (5th) (1957) to #A3 (3rd) (1969) to BN #A3 (1970) to Alaska RR Glacier Pass (1971) to Denali (1985)--see here: http://alaskarails.org/fp/passenger/pass-retired/denali/denali.html

Mystery Car:

12S-1DR converted to SOU business car #8 to #5 to #10 to pvt. owner #10 (#800277) to Susan Marie to IRM--see here: http://www.irm.org/cgi-bin/rsearch.cgi?coaches=Southern+Railway=10

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:57 pm 
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Another survivor:

180. Hampton Roads (Lot #6022, Plan #3951N, bag-buf-lng, ex-Valley Forge [1st])--sold to SOU and converted to business car #2 (1945) to #3 to #1 to #14 to pvt. owner #60 Hampton Roads (#800128) to Gulf & Ohio French Broad River to Grafton & Upton--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2714081 (George S photo)

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:16 pm 
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Two More Survivors:

181. Central Plateau (Lot #4971, Plan #3959E, 1926, 3C-2DR-lng-obs)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to BRC (1954) to Decatur Jct. RY #800220 to pvt. owner (stored in Cisco, IL)--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1094112 (Doug Wolfe photo), here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3671273 (D. Ritter photo), and here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/rspicture.aspx?id=254835

182. Clover Glade (Lot #4159, Plan #4036A, 8S-5DB, PRR, ex-Dungarvin)--sold to MKT (1948) to Dr. Renfert to Temple RR & Heritage Mus (Temple, TX)--see here: http://www.rrhm.org/exhibits/rolling-stock/

a. At Dr. Renfert's ranch in 1979: http://rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt-clogla-csa.jpg (Con Sweet photo)

b. At Temple museum, before repainting: http://www.trainweather.com/TempleMuseum101506-pullman-5R.jpg (Train Weather photo)

c. At Temple museum, after repainting: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3462/3201391533_cbca4e7666_o.jpg (Earl C. Leatherberry photo) (click once to enlarge)

d. At Temple museum, after repainting: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1873973 (Beth Rush photo)

Where Are They Now?

Armory Hill (Lot #6035, Plan #3961L, 1927, buf-plr-lng-obs [16 seats], GN, ex-Dolly Madison)--sold to GN (1945) to MofW to Reserve Mining Co. Parlor Car--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1258836 (John Hill photo)

Augusta (Lot #4160, Plan #4018, 1913/32, buf-plr-lng, ACL, ex-Ashland, nee-Folkstone)--sold to ACL (1944) to Tennessee Southern #2 Miss Judy--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=590755 (Frank S. Novak photo)

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:18 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
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Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
12S-1DR converted to SOU business car #8 to #5 to #10 to pvt. owner #10 (#800277) to Susan Marie to IRM...


I have copies of business car diagrams going back to the early days of Southern Railway and I have Mike Palmieri's List of Pullman cars that the Southern acquired before and after divestiture and based on what I am seeing I do not believe that #8 was rebuilt from a Pullman sleeper... all of the cars prior to when it was released from Chattanooga car shop on 19July48 are accounted for (6 baggage - buffet cars, all rebuilt to business cars #2, #3, #4, #6, #7 and #9). Between August '45 when the last of the first six cars were acquired and August '48, when the next Pullman car was acquired, there were no other cars acquired from Pullman.

Quote:
Augusta (Lot #4160, Plan #4018, 1913/32, buf-plr-lng, ACL, ex-Ashland, nee-Folkstone)--sold to ACL (1944) to Tennessee Southern #2 Miss Judy--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=590755 (Frank S. Novak photo)


The last I have heard about this car it was being stored indoors in Mount Pleasant, Tn. was the last report, but it is up for sale.

Now... since this thread has moved to restaurant cars it is worth mentioning that the Aberdeen Carolina & Western recently repainted their ex-PRR/PULL Defender car and renamed it Pinehurst...

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3567530
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3676258
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3676257

The ACWR is becoming a repository of old, rare and obscure (to steal a phrase from Extra 2200 South magazine. Over the two year the owner has acquired the former Wabash 5 Indiana, Green Bay & Western business car 600, Southern Pacific/Pullman solarium car Mission Santa Ynez (mentioned earlier in this thread), SP business car #100 Airsley and a Union Pacific dome - lounge, its second dome car (wonder if they can clear the bridge for the Aberdeen - Star line in Star). The owner is quite the collector. They have also started work on a locomotive and car ship with the car shop being for the rebuilding of passenger cars.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:59 am 
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Thanks, Jerry, for all the info!

183. Augusta

184. Defender (Lot #3986, Plan #4019S, 1912/33, rest-plr, PRR, ex-Glenolden)--sold to PRR #7014 (1945) to AC&W #7014 Pinehurst

More survivors:

185. Lotos Club (Lot #4202, Plan #4025Q, 1913/36, 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs, B&O, ex-El Quivira)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Tilp Industries (1968) to RRMofPA--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1441490 (Jonathan Ferraro photo)

186. Black Diamond (Lot #6092, Plan #3984, 1927, sol-lng-plr [24 seats], LV)--sold to LV #1551 (1940) to MofW rider car #94058 (1964) to Pleasant Valley Winery (1966) to Rahway Valley (1975) to Delaware-Otsego and stored (1986)--see here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=182&t=153579

187. White Diamond (Lot #6092, Plan #3984, 1927, sol-lng-plr [24 seats], LV)--sold to LV #1552 (1940) to RRMofPA (1970)--see here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=182&t=153579 and here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=303284 ( photo)

188. John Wilkes (Lot #6078, Plan #3917G, 1927, 1DR-plr [32 seats], LV, ex-Emerald)--sold to LV #1554 (1944) to MofW tool-commissary car #94056 (1964) to CR #45718 to Anthacite Railroads Hist Soc--see here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=182&t=153579 and here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2342937 (Joe Scherbenco photo)

189. Rotary Club (Lot #6289, Plan #3992H, 1929, café-lng-plr [12 seats], PRR)--sold to PRR #7012 (1945) to restaurant dining space (no holes!) at Berea Union Depot in Berea, OH, as the Berean--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3140787 (Gary Everhart photo)

While looking through Jerry LaBoda's website, I found the identity of the second heavyweight at Harlansburg, PA, which I had mentioned back on page #5 of this thread:

190. James Fenimore Cooper (Lot #6220, Plan #3410B, 1929, 12S-1DR, PRR)--sold to PRR #8823 (1948) to pvt. owner (Niles, OH) to Harlansburg Station Transportation Mus (1984)

a. http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2300/2363479733_6a27d82542_o.jpg (erjkprunczyk photo) (click once to enlarge)

b. http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2538534 (J.D. photo)

c. http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3242204 (Greg Wiltsie photo)

191. City of Danville (Lot #6065, Plan #3957K, 1927/55, 1DR-plr [26 seats], WAB, ex-Diplomat)--sold to WAB (1945) to N&W?? (1964) to Washington D.C. Chapter NRHS Diplomat to Eastern Shore RY Mus (Parksley, VA)--see here: http://www.easternshorerailwaymuseum.org/, here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2678630 (Jonathan Ferraro photo), and here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2678610 (Jonathan Ferraro photo)

192. Donizetti (Lot #4833, Plan #3523K, 1924, 6C-3DR)--retained (12/31/1948)--to Ruben Darby-Darby Wood Products (1967) to Mad River & Nickel Plate RR Mus--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3286386 (Michael Rujak photo)

193. East Lexington (Lot #4868, Plan #3410A, 1925, 12S-1DR, GM&O)--sold to GM&O #2205 (1948) to Wisconsin Great Northern #26 (Spooner, WI)--see here: http://abpr.railfan.net/august10/08-09-10/WGN26_2010-08-03_Spooner_WI_b.jpg (Vlad Kedrovsky photo) (click once to enlarge)

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:16 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:15 pm
Posts: 141
Location: At large
Add a couple that are hanging around here in upstate NY:

Lot 4974 6 compartment 3 Drawing room "Glen Saddell", Remsen NY: Currently owned by Remsen Development Corporation, ex Adirondack Railway/Adirondack Scenic MW9 (never used). Sale to Iowa Pacific pending.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jsgilligan/6194637211/

Lot 4969 12 Sections 1 Drawing room "Espyville", Milford NY: Currently owned by the Leartherstocking Chapter NRHS/Cooperstown & Charlotte Valley Railroad, Ex Conrail MOW 492730, ex PRR 8786
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trail_dawg/8473600627/

Just scrapped but survived into 2013:
Lot 4969 12 Sections 1 Drawing Room "Latcha" ex Conrail work car 492616, ex PRR 8850, scrapped by Adirondack Scenic after being converted to open air car "New York Central 83".
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=315709

Not a sleeper but heavyweight and Pullman: 34 seat parlor "John Hancock": Privately owned stored Glenmont NY, ex Conrail work car #27148, ex PRR.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=958937

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:43 pm 

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Rainier Rails wrote:
181. Central Plateau (Lot #4971, Plan #3959E, 1926, 3C-2DR-lng-obs)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to BRC (1954) to Decatur Jct. RY #800220 to pvt. owner (stored in Cisco, IL)


Car was never owned by DJR,was on trackage prior to DJR's unconventional assumption of operations.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Thanks, Bulby, for the clarification on Central Plateau!

Thanks, Matt, for the additional info on and photos of Glen Saddell, Espyville, and Latcha, as well as for the info on and photo of previously unlisted survivor John Hancock!

142. Glen Saddell--top of page 5

23. Espyville--page 2

143. Latcha--top of page 5--scrapped

194. John Hancock (Lot #6384, Plan #4000A, 1930, 1DR-plr [34 seats], PRR)--sold to PRR #7042 (1945) to MofW to PC #27148 to Conrail (PC) #27148 to pvt. owner and stored in Glenmont, NY

Some more survivors--

195. Enterprise (Lot #3986, Plan #4019M, 1912/33, rest-plr, PRR, ex-Camden)--sold to PRR #7002 (1945) to BR&W #700 (1965) to Adirondack RY (ADRC) to Cape Cod & Hyannis RR #100 Nobska to restaurant in Somerset, MA

a. On the BR&W, Flemington, NJ, in May 1975: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1140999 (Tim Darnell photo) (note the a/c unit mounted in the window)

b. On the Adirondack RY, Thendara, NY, in August 1979: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1521700 (Dave Rich photo)

c. On the CC&H in July, 1985: http://imagestorage.greatrails.net/photos/2007/12/06/2007120616160632187.jpg (Carl Weber, Jr. photo)

d. As a restaurant in Somerset, MA, in May 2002: http://imagestorage.greatrails.net/photos/2002/05/22/200205221338375622.jpg (Elliot Hoffman photo)

196. Fort Andrews (Lot #4592, Plan #2585D, 1920, 10S-1DR-2C, C&NW)--sold to C&NW (1948) to Fremont & Elkhorn Valley #1102--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=891192 (Allan Love, Jr. photo), and here--http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2589219 (Stephie Kolata photo)

197. Lake Bluff (Lot #4728, Plan #3585, 1923, 10S-1DR-2C, C&NW)--sold to C&NW (1948) to Fremont & Elkhorn Valley #1101--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=891178 (Allan Love, Jr. photo), and here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2589198 (Stephie Kolata photo)

198. Lake Mitchell (Lot #4770, Plan #3585, 1924, 10S-1DR-2C, PRR)--sold to PRR #8667 (1948) to NRM--see here: http://abpr.railfan.net/july10/07-19-10/LakeMitchell_2010-07-14_GreenBay_WI.jpg (Vlad Kedrovsky photo) (click once to enlarge)

199. McKeever (Lot #4764, Plan #3410A, 1924, 12S-1DR, MKT)--sold to MKT (1948) to Dr. Bill Boyd (1966) to Dr. John Worsham to Texas Transportation Museum (San Antonio) (1983)--see here: http://www.txtransportationmuseum.org/collection-pullman-mckeever.php, and here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/32299138@N08/3913651384/sizes/l/in/photostream/ (Red Tail Panther photo) (click once to enlarge)

200. Meath (Lot #4611, Plan #2410F, 1921/43, 12S-1DR, CB&Q)--Tourist #2645 sold to CB&Q (1947) to Galesburg Depot--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1989945 (Ryan Kertis photo)

201. Mt. Hillers (Lot #4998, Plan #3521A, 1926, 10S-lng-obs)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Georgia & Florida (1955) to Merrimack Valley RR #100 Granite State--see here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianblackden/3442920075/sizes/l/in/photostream/ (Brian Blackden photo)

202. Oak Lane (Lot #4845, Plan #4172, 1925/49, 12RM-1SB-4DB, ex-McMicken)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Ohio Power Co. (1967) to Muskingum Electric and stored in Nelsonville, OH--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1610516 (Josh Pack photo)

203. Sumter (Lot #4222, Plan #2522A, 1913, 7C-2DR, CN)--sold to CN and converted to coach #5375 (1942) to LSRM (1975) to Mid-Continent (1993)--see here: http://www.mcrwy.com/collectn/stlpas/cn5375.html

204. Connecticut (Lot #6221, Plan #3988D, 1929, 1DR-1SB-buf-lng-obs, NYC, ex-Tonawanda Valley)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Crown Metal Products (1957) to pvt. owner and stored at Danbury to Dr. Linda Beardsley to Danbury Railway Museum #2022 (2008)--see here: http://www.danbury.org/DRM/drmx2022.htm

205. Arsenal Tower (Lot #4844, Plan #4090F, 1925/42, 8S-1DR-3DB, ACL, ex-McPhail)--sold to ACL (1948) to Steamtown NHS--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=887794 (Daniel Barnett photo)

206. Trapper (Lot #6261, Plan #3979A, 1929, 8S-1DR-2C, SOO)--sold to CP (1948) to MofW #411249 to pvt. owner and stored in Manville, NJ--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1999613 (Jesse Acorn photo), and here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3699165 (Philip M. Goldstein photo)

207. Wayfarer (Lot #6077, Plan #4075, 1927/37, lng-plr [14 seats], WAB, ex-Wallingford)--sold to WAB (1945) to N&W?? to Valley RR--see here: http://www.newenglandcustomrail.com/Rail%20Photos/Essex/Normal20020708/DSC00027%20copy.jpg (New England Custom Rail photo)

208. Monte Cristo (Lot #4923, Plan #3521A, 1925, 10S-lng-obs, MILW)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to CGW and converted to business car #100 (1954) to KCS #99 Tolmak renamed New Orleans--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=600440 (Shawn Levy photo), here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3588298 (Zachary Walters photo), and here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3710951 (Allen Roche photo)

209. Windsor Castle (Lot #4484, Plan #4027G, 1917/32, 10S-rest-lng, SOU, ex-Penvir)--sold to SOU #2458 (1948) converted to coach #1041 to Conrail and converted to business car #8 to CSX and converted to executive sleeper #994008 Mississippi--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3115816 (G Gerard photo)

210. Hudson River (Lot #4862, Plan #3957F, 1925, 1DR-plr [26 seats], NYC, ex-Queen Elizabeth)--sold to NYC (1942) renamed Kalamazoo Valley renamed Victoria Park converted to business car #30 (2nd) (1952) to PC #30 to Conrail #10 to CSX #994010 New York--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3115822 (G Gerard photo)

211. Cuttyhunk (Lot #4647, Plan #2410H, 1922, 12S-1DR, N&W)--sold to N&W (1948) to MofW #521414 to NS (N&W) #521414 Spirit of Tim Drake--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3243455 (K.M. Sies photo), and here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3363169 (Robert Duncan, Sr. photo)

212. Hagar [sic]* (Lot #3902, Plan #2416, 1911, 1DR-plr, N&W)--sold to N&W and converted to coach #765 (1941) to MofW foreman-bunk #526407 (1949) to #521407 to NS (N&W) #521407 to display in Bramwell, WV--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=795889 (G. Gerard photo)

*The N&W Historical Society has the name as Hager, but the Pullman Project CCR database has the name as Hagar.

213. Zana (Lot #4366, Plan #2416C, 1916, 1DR-plr, N&W)--sold to N&W and converted to coach #779 (1941) to MofW foreman-bunk #526401 (1947) to #521412 (1956) to safety car #999000 to NS #999000 to VMT--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2677864 (David Tooley photo)

214. Aylesbury (Lot #4318, Plan #4061, 1915/37, 14S, AT&SF)--Tourist #3038 retained (12/31/1948)--sold to N&W (1953) to MofW #521406 to display in High Point, NC--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2779688 (Kevin Hunt photo), and here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2778769 (Kevin Hunt photo)

215. Huldah (Lot #3902, Plan #2416, 1911, 1DR-plr, N&W)--sold to N&W and converted to coach #766 (1941) to MofW foreman-bunk #526408 (1949) to #521408 to Tidewater Chapter NRHS--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=685829 (William Grimes photo), and here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=538132 (Jason Underwood photo)

216. Boston (Lot #4211, Plan #2502A, 1914, pvt. car, NP)--sold to NP #6 (1941) to Jefferson River* to pvt. owner Royal Gorge to pvt. owner Alexauker and stored in Logan, OH--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1930186 (Jim Trivett photo)

*The Jefferson River is not listed on the Friends of the Burlington Northern website’s business car roster (at merger: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/pbnbuscar.htm), so one can make the assumption that it was sold into private ownership sometime before 1970.

“Where Are They Now?”

Minnekahda Club (Lot #6301, Plan #3995B, 1929/35, 2SB-2DB-2C-1DR-lng, NYNH&H, spelling changed to Minikahda Club in 1935)--sold to NYNH&H #775 (1948) converted to business car #100 to Genesee & Wyoming #1 Edward I to C&NW #404 (2nd)--see here: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2568/3828631353_747673e585_o.jpg (D.W. Davidson photo) (click once to enlarge)

Elanette (Lot #3951, Plan #2418, 1912, 1DR-plr, N&W)--sold to N&W and converted to coach #752 (1941) to MofW foreman-bunk #526400 (1946) to #521413 (1962) to Alabama & Gulf Coast to Georgia-Florida Rail Net??--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=68048 (Tim Huemmer photo), and here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1180560 (Charles Burgess photo)

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:09 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:04 am
Posts: 84
209 Windsor Castle was an Executive Sleeper as Conrail #8. Based on floor plan and photos this car is a copy of the Southern Railway executive sleepers which were Pullman cars when originally constructed.

http://www.trainweb.org/railpix/crpix/c ... 5-2-99.jpg

I will have to dig back through my office car stuff and see if it was sold to Conrail as a coach or had already been converted.

Can anyone who knows anything about N&W trace N&W 521413 back to a Pullman car like the Zana? This has been in TVRM's collection for about 25 years and we have never be able to determine its original heritage. It looks like it was a coach before it went into derrick service.

Tim Andrews
Chattanooga

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:31 pm 
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Thanks, Tim, for the info on Windsor Castle!

Regarding N&W #521413, did TVRM lease the car to Georgia-Florida Rail Net??

Regarding the history of said car, the N&W steel car roster on the N&W Historical Society's website (see here: http://www.nwhs.org/data/passenger/index.html), lists the history of #521413 as such:

N&W Historical Society wrote:
752
Pn
Coach
TLL
Pullman 4-1912
Purchased from Pullman in 2-41. Car Name Elanette; converted to coach at Roanoke Shops 4-1941. Converted to MofW Foreman-Bunk at Roanoke Shops on 12-31-46, re# 526400; at Columbus, OH on 7-6-62, re# 521413.


The roster opens as a PDF file, the entry for coach #752 is on page 10 (of 31 total) of the document.

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Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:34 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 366
Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
Can anyone who knows anything about N&W trace N&W 521413 back to a Pullman car like the Zana?


Ex-N&W 526400, exx-752, nee-PULL Elanette, per info from N&WHS.

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Passenger Car Photo Index Updated 8/9/17 with 8,402 new links

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:04 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Another "where is it now?" car:

Mt. Thielsen (Lot #4998, Plan #3521A, 1926, 10S-lng-obs, L&N)--sold to L&N (1948) converted to business car #375 (1949?) to C&NW #401 (3rd) (1982) to #401 Chicago (1985) to UP (1995) to Fleming Company (1998)

The following are two pictures taken by Marty Bernard of the #401 in the Western Ave. Coach Yard in Chicago, in September 1989 (the dome next to the #401 is ex-MILW #53, now owned by the Friends of 261):

a. http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=905865

b. http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=905866

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:07 pm 

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"Regarding N&W #521413, did TVRM lease the car to Georgia-Florida Rail Net??"

I may have flipped numbers on the car still at TVRM. We had two:

NW 521413
NW 525671

One went to Pete Clausen, but I'm not sure where he moved it to. Let me go check the number on the car still here and see which is which.

Tim Andrews

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:11 pm 

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The folks at the ACWR did a great job on the Defender project!

I was looking at that car and trying to research another similar car at the St. Louis Iron Mountain & Southern in Jackson, MO.
Through a local IC/GM&O passenger fan, I found out that the car in Jackson is the Matanzas - was originally used on the Havana Special, then ended up on the GM&O - could be a sister car to the Azalea? It's been a few years ago since I have been through the car, and I recall it having sections, and maybe a drawing room (could have been a lounge). Any info on it?


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:32 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Tim--

Info from the N&W Historical Society, in the Wabash passenger car roster (PDF file) located on their website under: http://www.nwhs.org/data/passenger/index.html

N&W Historical Society wrote:
522
1222
Coach
ACF 1912
Named City of Columbia. Changed to N&W Decatur 6-24-65; converted to MofW Camp Bunk R# 525671 Frankfort 12-17-70.


First number is the N&W car number, second number is the WAB car number.

Thanks, MRLX1020, for the info on Matanzas!

217. Matanzas (Lot #4979, Plan #3967A, 1926, buf-lng, Florida Pool)--sold to GM&O diner-lng #401 Camellia (1945) converted to instruction car #106 to #66658 to St. Louis, Iron Mountain & Southern

The #400 Azalea has the following history:

Barnegat (Lot #4158, Plan #2415A, 1913, lng-buf-bag, PRR)--sold to C&A (1941) to GM&O diner-lng #400 Azalea converted to baggage-express #400

a. As diner lounge #400 Azalea: http://rr-fallenflags.org/acfx/gmo-d400asw.jpg (Fallen Flags photo)

b. As baggage-express #400 (still smoking from the fire): http://rr-fallenflags.org/gmo/gmo-b0400goa.jpg (Fallen Flags photo)

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