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 Post subject: Laminated carlines for wood cars
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:35 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:12 am
Posts: 819
Location: cheyenne
I have been experimenting with laminating carlines for different aspects of wood cars and cabooses, we made forms for the roof arches of the UP wood cabooses i own and now have a double form for a D&RGW narrow gauge car, also producing the lower carlines for the side roof of these cars on my duplicating machine, and for the Denver Trolley car we are restoring. Soon will be making a form for the cab roof braces for Porter 'Audrey' No6.
I basically did this due to the extreme waste and cost of finding full 2 inch oak boards for cutting one piece carlines.

This service is available from Vintage Rails Restoration for all projects involving this kind of process. Call me 307 221 2371 for info.

Mike Pannell
Cheyenne


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 Post subject: Re: Laminated carlines for wood cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:31 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:37 pm
Posts: 286
Location: Niles Canyon Railway, near Sunol, CA
Very nice work on the laminated carlines!

Laminating carlines etc makes sense these days with such great wood glues that are strong and waterproof when they're cured.

Laminated beams are also used in wooden boatbuilding. Here is an example from the "Acorn to Arabella" series of work-in-progress videos: http://www.totalboat.com/2017/11/10/acorn-arabella-steaming-laminating-timbers/

(Warning: Watching these videos can be habit-forming. But they're also a good guide to techniques that work well for wooden boats and wooden railroad cars.)

- Doug Debs


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 Post subject: Re: Laminated carlines for wood cars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2662
Location: Northern Illinois
Mike,

What have you found you have to allow for 'spring back'?

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: Laminated carlines for wood cars
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:42 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:12 am
Posts: 819
Location: cheyenne
Dennis Storzek wrote:
Mike,

What have you found you have to allow for 'spring back'?


Dependent on the material. a lot more spring back for fir than poplar, i like poplar a lot more for strength, on these 4ft 2 arches about 1/2 inch spring back.

Mike Pannell

Vintage Rails Restoration LLC


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 Post subject: Re: Laminated carlines for wood cars
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:13 am
Posts: 93
Doug Debs 2472 wrote:
(Warning: Watching these videos can be habit-forming. But they're also a good guide to techniques that work well for wooden boats and wooden railroad cars.)

- Doug Debs


I'll say. Still working my way through Louis Sauzedde's videos (also on Totalboat), which I blundered into looking for ways to deal with old varnish. He makes boatbuilding look so easy (bet it's not)!

How thin are the individual laminations being used?


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 Post subject: Re: Laminated carlines for wood cars
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:51 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Ipswich, Mass., Phoenix, AZ
Glue-lam has been in use for years for structural members of buildings. It would be perfect for key structural members of wood cars on C&TS but apparently can't be used for "historical" reasons on rehabs funded by state or federal monies. Makes little or no sense- who can tell? So, every ten years or so those cars have to be again rebuilt. Like painting the Golden Gate bridge.


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 Post subject: Re: Laminated carlines for wood cars
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:02 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:02 am
Posts: 125
Location: Northern California
This is a struggle. We try and duplicate the original fabric if at all possible. Since the original wasn't laminated in 1905, we avoid lamination when replacing failed pieces. Yet, we can't always duplicate the original in the same form. The old growth, clear, close grained wood available at the beginning of the last century usually isn't available, especially in long lengths. Some materials viewed as being beneficial when the car was built have been found to be quite hazardous. Documentation is important so that the person working on the car 50 years hence doesn't draw the wrong conclusions from our decisions.

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Joe Magruder


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 Post subject: Re: Laminated carlines for wood cars
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:43 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:44 pm
Posts: 120
Joe Magruder wrote:
This is a struggle. We try and duplicate the original fabric if at all possible. Since the original wasn't laminated in 1905, we avoid lamination when replacing failed pieces. Yet, we can't always duplicate the original in the same form. The old growth, clear, close grained wood available at the beginning of the last century usually isn't available, especially in long lengths. Some materials viewed as being beneficial when the car was built have been found to be quite hazardous. Documentation is important so that the person working on the car 50 years hence doesn't draw the wrong conclusions from our decisions.


Great point. Different organizations have different methodologies with documentation. Unfortunately, in many cases there is much less care for this idea of "original fabric" and even less care in documenting what was replaced or modified by the organization vs the original condition.

But consider this: will the documentation survive? What policies and procedures are in place to make sure these collections records are treated with equal preservation priority as the collection artifacts themselves?

One thing I often do is "sign" my work. If I've done substantial work on a component or replaced something, I'll write my name or initials, and/or that of the organization, along with a date (at least the year). I put this someplace where it isn't readily visible, but if you were working on the part again and started to take off covers, etc. you would see it.


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