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 Post subject: PRR/N&W Sleepers to Commuter Service
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:06 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
I'm trying to find the current locations of the Budd-built PRR 21RM and N&W 10RM-6DB sleepers that were rebuilt in 1963-1964 to coaches and ended up in NJT, SEMTA, and MARC commuter service.

I have a complete listing of the numbers assigned to the cars by PRR after conversion, seating capacities, and sale either to NJDOT or SEMTA in 1976.

I'm trying to resolve which cars ended up on MARC and where they went from there. I know the current locations of several identified cars, and the locations of several unidenfied cars. Does anyone have a full listing/renumbering of the cars that went to MARC, and when?

Also, if anyone has dispositions or locations of cars, feel free to chime in.

Question: both the PRR and N&W cars were rebuilt by Budd at Red Lyon, with the N&W cars in Rebuild Lot #9621-380, but what was the Rebuild Lot for the PRR cars?

Note: NJT initially used the #14xx/#15xx-series numbers, but the cars were later renumbered to the #54xx-series, so cars with a "NJT #unknown" refers to the #54xx-series renumbering.

PRR "Inn"-Series 21RM (Lot #9667-024, Plan #9513):

(1) Coach No. (2) Former Name (3) 1976 Sale (4) MARC No. (5) Notes & Disposition

#1500 Carnegie Inn SEMTA #105 "Clawson"; MARC #145; to Iowa Pacific-SLRG #800814

#1501 Massillon Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition
#1502 Princeton Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition

#1503 Alliance Inn SEMTA #103; MARC #143; to B&O Museum 2002; see Note No. 1
#1504 Tiffin Inn SEMTA #104; MARC #unknown; to B&O Museum 2002, named "Ron Drucker"

#1505 Lewistown Inn NJT #5439; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41307
#1506 Jeanette Inn NJT #5431; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41305

#1507 Beaver Falls Inn NJT #5423; no further disposition

#1508 Collinsville Inn SEMTA #108 "Hazel Ridge"; MARC #148; to Washington, D.C. Chapter, #800958
#1509 Braddock Inn NJT #5411; MARC #130; to C.P. Huntington Chapter, #800854; see Note No. 2

#1510 Salem Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition
#1511 Petoskey Inn Burned in 1967

#1512 Lima Inn NJT #5437; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41308; see Note No. 6
#1513 Norristown Inn SEMTA #107; MARC #147; to B&O Museum 2002, leased to SRI in Owosso
#1514 Elmira Inn NJT #5432; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41304

#1515 Piqua Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition; see Note No. 7

#1516 Bucyrus Inn SEMTA #106 "Bloomfield Township"; MARC #146; to Mid-America; to Iowa Pacific-SLRG, #800811; see Note No. 3

#1517 Kokomo Inn Retired and scrapped in 1974
#1518 Grand Rapids Inn NJT #5432; no further disposition; see Note No. 4

#1519 Hamilton Inn SEMTA #101; MARC #141; to B&O Museum 2002, named "Lisa Wake"

#1520 Van Wert Inn SEMTA #109; no further disposition
#1521 Sharon Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition

#1522 Kane Inn NJT #5427; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41306; see Note No. 5
#1523 Bedford Inn NJT #5415; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41302

#1524 Tyrone Inn SEMTA #110; no further disposition; see Note No. 8

#1525 Lock Haven Inn NJT #unknown; MARC #132; to Mid-America; to Iowa Pacific-SLRG #800735
#1526 Hagerstown Inn No 1976 sale listed; MARC #unknown; to Mid-America, #800xxx-series number unknown

#1527 Coatesville Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition
#1528 Steubenville Inn SEMTA #111 "Birmingham"; MARC #149; to Iowa Pacific-SLRG

#1529 Latrobe Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition
#1530 Marietta Inn SEMTA #102; MARC #109; to Ringling Bros. #41315

#1531 Ravenna Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition
#1532 Olean Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition
#1533 Coshocton Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition
#1534 Culver Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition
#1535 Sewickley Inn No disposition information
#1536 Ashtabula Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition

#1537 Franklin Inn SEMTA #112 "Pleasant Ridge"; MARC #142; to Washington, D.C. Chapter #800957

#1538 Logansport Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition
#1539 New Castle Inn No disposition information

#1540 Greensburg Inn NJT #5427; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41316
#1541 Anderson Inn NJT #5416; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41301

#1542 Mansfield Inn No disposition information

#1543 Urbana Inn No 1976 sale listed; MARC #1501; to B&O Museum 2002, named "Hershey Wake"
#1544 Chambersburg Inn NJT #unknown; MARC #133; to Mid-America; to Iowa Pacific-SLRG #800766

#1545 Butler Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition
#1546 Chester Inn No disposition information; renamed to "William Thaw"

#1547 Cambridge Inn NJT #5410; to URHS 1989
#1548 Sunbury Inn PC #3242; MARC #1514; to Ringling Bros. #41317

#1549 Uniontown Inn Retired and scrapped in 1977

N&W "County"/"College"-Series 10RM-6DB (Lot #9660-033, Plan #9523):

#1480 Virginia Polytechnic Institute No disposition information

#1481 Campbell County To RRMofPA in 1978; MARC #102; to B&O Museum 2002, named "Blue Drucker"
#1482 Mercer County To RRMofPA in 1978

#1483 Franklin County No disposition information
#1484 Virginia Military Institute No disposition information

#1485 Washington & Lee University To RRMofPA in 1978
#1486 Randolph Macon College No disposition information

#1487 Roanoke College To RRMofPA in 1978
#1488 Emory & Henry College No disposition information

#1489 Scioto County PC #3231; no 1976 sale listed; MARC #unknown; to Virginia Museum of Transportation

#1490 Augusta County PC #3232; no further disposition
#1491 Mingo County PC #3233; no further disposition

#1492 Pike County PC #3234; NJT #5421; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41311
#1493 Pulaski County PC #3235; NJT #5402; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41310

#1494 Wythe County PC #3236; NJT #unknown; no further disposition
#1495 Hampden-Sidney College PC #3237; burned in 1975
#1496 Hollins College PC #3238; no further disposition

#1497 Duke University PC #3239; NJT #5403; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41309

#1498 Ohio State University PC #3240; no further disposition
#1499 University of Cincinnati PC #3241; no further disposition

Unidentified Cars:

The SAM Shortline in Georgia uses several of the N&W/PRR coaches, but I haven't been able to identify them:

#101 (N&W)
#106 "Georgia Veterans" (N&W)
#108 "Americus" (N&W)
#111 "Leslie" (N&W)
#113 (N&W)
#151 "Cordele" (PRR)
#152 "Archery" (PRR)
#154 "Plains" (PRR)

I had also written down a while back that Iowa Pacific-SLRG also owned #140, identity unknown.

Notes:

1. PRR "Alliance Inn" was renamed to "Jacob J. Vandergrift"
2. PRR "Braddock Inn" was renamed to "Peter Shoenberger"
3. PRR "Bucyrus Inn" was renamed to "Henry S. Spang"
4. PRR "Grand Rapids Inn" was renamed to "E.T. Weir"
5. PRR "Kane Inn" was renamed to "Cincinnati Inn"
6. PRR "Lima Inn" was renamed to "John Pitcairn"
7. PRR "Piqua Inn" was renamed to "Jeffery Scaife"
8. PRR "Tyrone Inn" was briefly renamed to "James Hay Reed" before being renamed to "B.F. Jones"

Sources:

1. Sleeper information from Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database at: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Renumbering information from "Streamliner Cars Volume 2: The Budd Company" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

3. Cars located via Jerry LaBoda's photo links website: http://passcarphotos.info/

4. PRR sleeper information from D. Garrett Spear's roster pages at: http://prr.railfan.net/passenger/GSPEAR/

5. Cars located via http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/

Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: PRR/N&W Sleepers to Commuter Service
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:35 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:19 am
Posts: 46
Quote:
#1480 Virginia Polytechnic Institute No disposition information

#1488 Emory & Henry College No disposition information

#1489 Scioto County PC #3231; no 1976 sale listed; MARC #unknown; to Virginia Museum of Transportation

#1498 Ohio State University PC #3240; no further disposition


The 1489 was sold to the Roanoke Chapter, NRHS (not VMT) early this spring. The car was located in Florida along with 3 others (1480, 1488, and 1498) after being relocated there from Georgia and hadn't run in several years. The sale was arranged by TVRM, which took ownership of all four cars and immediately sold the Scioto County to RCNRHS. The car is currently stored at VMT and Chapter is working on preparing the car for the work necessary to put it back into service (mechanical, HVAC, plumbing, etc. as well as repairing damage due to several years without windows in FL), most likely as a lounge car.

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 Post subject: Re: PRR/N&W Sleepers to Commuter Service
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:28 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:22 pm
Posts: 69
Rainier Rails wrote:
I'm trying to find the current locations of the Budd-built PRR 21RM and N&W 10RM-6DB sleepers that were rebuilt in 1963-1964 to coaches and ended up in NJT, SEMTA, and MARC commuter service.

I have a complete listing of the numbers assigned to the cars by PRR after conversion, seating capacities, and sale either to NJDOT or SEMTA in 1976.

I'm trying to resolve which cars ended up on MARC and where they went from there. I know the current locations of several identified cars, and the locations of several unidenfied cars. Does anyone have a full listing/renumbering of the cars that went to MARC, and when?

Also, if anyone has dispositions or locations of cars, feel free to chime in.

Question: both the PRR and N&W cars were rebuilt by Budd at Red Lyon, with the N&W cars in Rebuild Lot #9621-380, but what was the Rebuild Lot for the PRR cars?

Note: NJT initially used the #14xx/#15xx-series numbers, but the cars were later renumbered to the #54xx-series, so cars with a "NJT #unknown" refers to the #54xx-series renumbering.

PRR "Inn"-Series 21RM (Lot #9667-024, Plan #9513):

(1) Coach No. (2) Former Name (3) 1976 Sale (4) MARC No. (5) Notes & Disposition

#1500 Carnegie Inn SEMTA #105 "Clawson"; MARC #145;Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum to Iowa Pacific-SLRG #800814

#1501 Massillon Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition
#1502 Princeton Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition - PRR 8279 Princeton Inn 1502 (9/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1502 NJT 5430 MARC 167 Akron Regional METRO Transit Authority (12/00)


#1503 Alliance Inn SEMTA #103; MARC #143; to B&O Museum 2002; see Note No. 1
#1504 Tiffin Inn SEMTA #104; MARC #unknown; to B&O Museum 2002, named "Ron Drucker"

#1505 Lewistown Inn NJT #5439; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41307
#1506 Jeanette Inn NJT #5431; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41305

#1507 Beaver Falls Inn NJT #5423; no further disposition - PRR 8244 Beaver Falls Inn 1507 (10/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1507 NJT 5423 MARC 163 Akron Regional METRO Transit Authority (12/00)


#1508 Collinsville Inn SEMTA #108 "Hazel Ridge"; MARC #148; to Washington, D.C. Chapter, #800958
#1509 Braddock Inn NJT #5411; MARC #130; to C.P. Huntington Chapter, #800854; see Note No. 2

#1510 Salem Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition - PRR 8281 Salem Inn 1510 (10/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1510 NJT 5425 MARC 165 Akron Regional METRO Transit Authority (12/00)

#1511 Petoskey Inn Burned in 1967

#1512 Lima Inn NJT #5437; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41308; see Note No. 6
#1513 Norristown Inn SEMTA #107; MARC #147; to B&O Museum 2002, leased to SRI in Owosso
#1514 Elmira Inn NJT #5432; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41304

#1515 Piqua Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition; see Note No. 7 - PRR 8278 Piqua Inn Jeffery Scaife (9/56) 1515 (10/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1515 NJT 5437


#1516 Bucyrus Inn SEMTA #106 "Bloomfield Township"; MARC #146; to Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum; to Iowa Pacific-SLRG, #800811; see Note No. 3

#1517 Kokomo Inn Retired and scrapped in 1974
#1518 Grand Rapids Inn NJT #5432; no further disposition; see Note No. 4 - PRR 8259 Grand Rapids Inn E.T. Weir (11/56) 1518 (10/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1518 NJT 5433 Wrecked by CR/CSX 7-90


#1519 Hamilton Inn SEMTA #101; MARC #141; to B&O Museum 2002, named "Lisa Wake"

#1520 Van Wert Inn SEMTA #109; no further disposition
#1521 Sharon Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition - PRR 8283 Sharon Inn 1521 (10/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1521 NJT 5414 MARC 162 Akron Regional METRO Transit Authority (12/00)


#1522 Kane Inn NJT #5427; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41306; see Note No. 5
#1523 Bedford Inn NJT #5415; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41302

#1524 Tyrone Inn SEMTA #110; no further disposition; see Note No. 8 - PRR 8287 Tyrone Inn James Hay Reed (8/56) B.F. Jones (9/56) Richard Beatty Mellon (9/56) 1524 (10/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1524 SEMTA 110 ((Pleasant Ridge) MARC 140 (TTA 1994) Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum To SLRG 140


#1525 Lock Haven Inn NJT #unknown; MARC #132; to Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum; to Iowa Pacific-SLRG #800735

#1526 Hagerstown Inn No 1976 sale listed; MARC #unknown; to Mid-America, #800855 - sold to CSXT in 06/2011 as Track Geometry Car

#1527 Coatesville Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition - PRR 8253 Coatsville Inn To UP as Slumbercoach 10-56 to 4-57 1527 (10/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1527 NJT 5434 MARC 148

#1528 Steubenville Inn SEMTA #111 "Birmingham"; MARC #149; Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum to Iowa Pacific-SLRG

#1529 Latrobe Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition - PRR 8266 Latrobe Inn 1529 (11/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1529 NJT 5412 MARC 161 Akron Regional METRO Transit Authority (12/00)

#1530 Marietta Inn SEMTA #102; MARC #109; to Ringling Bros. #41315

#1531 Ravenna Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition - PRR 8280 Ravenna Inn 1531 (11/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1531 NJT 5418

#1532 Olean Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition - PRR 8276 Olean Inn 1532 (11/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1532 NJT 5413

#1533 Coshocton Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition - PRR 8255 Coshocton Inn 1533 (11/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1533 NJT 5424 MARC 164 Akron Regional METRO Transit Authority (12/00)

#1534 Culver Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition - PRR 8256 Culver Inn 1534 (11/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1534 NJT 5440 MARC 169 Akron Regional METRO Transit Authority (12/00)

#1535 Sewickley Inn No disposition information - PRR 8282 Sewickley Inn 1535 (11/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1535 NJT 1535

#1536 Ashtabula Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition - PRR 8243 Ashtabula Inn 1536 (11/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1536 NJT 5435 MARC 168 Akron Regional METRO Transit Authority (12/00)


#1537 Franklin Inn SEMTA #112 "Pleasant Ridge"; MARC #142; to Washington, D.C. Chapter #800957

#1538 Logansport Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition - PRR 8270 Logansport Inn 1538 (11/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1538 NJT 5436 Used for parts and remainder scrapped by ABB @ Elmira Body stored at Martin State Airport

#1539 New Castle Inn No disposition information - PRR 8274 New Castle Inn 1539 (11/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1539 MDOT 1512 MARC 151 "The Cordele" SAM Shortline 151 GA (6/01)


#1540 Greensburg Inn NJT #5427; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41316
#1541 Anderson Inn NJT #5416; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41301

#1542 Mansfield Inn No disposition information - PRR 8271 Mansfield Inn 1542 (11/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1542 MDOT 1513 MARC 152 "Archery" SAM Shortline 152 GA (6/01)


#1543 Urbana Inn No 1976 sale listed; MARC #1501; to B&O Museum 2002, named "Hershey Wake"

#1544 Chambersburg Inn NJT #unknown; MARC #133; to Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum; to Iowa Pacific-SLRG #800766

#1545 Butler Inn NJT #unknown; no further disposition - PRR 8248 Butler Inn 1545 (11/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1545


#1546 Chester Inn No disposition information; renamed to "William Thaw" - PRR 8252 Chester Inn William Thaw (8/56) 546 (11/63) 76 seat/ smoker PC 1546 MDOT 1515 MARC 154 SAM Shortline 154 Plains (6/01)


#1547 Cambridge Inn NJT #5410; to URHS 1989
#1548 Sunbury Inn PC #3242; MARC #1514; to Ringling Bros. #41317

#1549 Uniontown Inn Retired and scrapped in 1977

N&W "County"/"College"-Series 10RM-6DB (Lot #9660-033, Plan #9523):

#1480 Virginia Polytechnic Institute No disposition information - N&W n/a Virginia Polytechnic Institute 1480 84 seat coach PC 1480 MDOT 1401 MARC 101 GA (6/01)


#1481 Campbell County To RRMofPA in 1978; MARC #102; to B&O Museum 2002, named "Blue Drucker"

#1482 Mercer County To RRMofPA in 1978 - N&W n/a Mercer County 1482 84 seat coach PC 1482 MDOT 1403 MARC 112


#1483 Franklin County No disposition information - N&W n/a Franklin County 1483 84 seat coach PC 1483 MDOT 1404 MARC 113

#1484 Virginia Military Institute No disposition information - N&W n/a Virginia Military Institute 1484 84 seat coach PC 1484 MDOT 1405 MARC 110 WMSRyy (2000)


#1485 Washington & Lee University To RRMofPA in 1978 - N&W n/a Washington and Lee University 1485 84 seat coach PC 1485 MDOT 1406 MARC 106 GA (6/01)

#1486 Randolph Macon College No disposition information - N&W n/a Randolph Macon Collete 1486 84 seat coach PC 1486 MDOT 1407 MARC 108 GA (6/01)


#1487 Roanoke College To RRMofPA in 1978 - N&W n/a Roanoke College 1487 84 seat coach PC 1487 MDOT 1408 MARC 100 WMSRy

#1488 Emory & Henry College No disposition information - N&W n/a Emory and Henry College 1488 84 seat coach PC 1488 MDOT 1409 MARC 109 To Ringling Brothers


#1489 Scioto County PC #3231; no 1976 sale listed; MARC #unknown; to Virginia Museum of Transportation - N&W n/a Scioto County 1489 72 seat snack bar PC 3231 MDOT 1410 MARC 103 GA (6/01)


#1490 Augusta County PC #3232; no further disposition - N&W n/a Augusta County 1490 72 seat snack bar PC 3232 MDOT 1411 MARC 111

#1491 Mingo County PC #3233; no further disposition - N&W n/a Mingo County 1491 72 seat snack bar PC 3233 MDOT 1412 MARC 104 "The Plains" SAM Shortline 104


#1492 Pike County PC #3234; NJT #5421; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41311
#1493 Pulaski County PC #3235; NJT #5402; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41310

#1494 Wythe County PC #3236; NJT #unknown; no further disposition

#1495 Hampden-Sidney College PC #3237; burned in 1975

#1496 Hollins College PC #3238; no further disposition - N&W n/a Hollins college 1496 72 seat snack bar PC 3238 MDOT 1413 Not Overhauled Center Sill Cracks


#1497 Duke University PC #3239; NJT #5403; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 #41309

#1498 Ohio State University PC #3240; no further disposition - N&W n/a Ohio State University 1498 72 seat snack bar PC 3240 MDOT 1414 MARC 105

#1499 University of Cincinnati PC #3241; no further disposition - N&W n/a University of Cincinnati 1499 72 seat snack bar PC 3241 MDOT 1415 MARC 107


Unidentified Cars:

The SAM Shortline in Georgia uses several of the N&W/PRR coaches, but I haven't been able to identify them:

#101 (N&W)
#106 "Georgia Veterans" (N&W)
#108 "Americus" (N&W)
#111 "Leslie" (N&W)
#113 (N&W)
#151 "Cordele" (PRR)
#152 "Archery" (PRR)
#154 "Plains" (PRR)

I had also written down a while back that Iowa Pacific-SLRG also owned #140, identity unknown.

Notes:

1. PRR "Alliance Inn" was renamed to "Jacob J. Vandergrift"
2. PRR "Braddock Inn" was renamed to "Peter Shoenberger"
3. PRR "Bucyrus Inn" was renamed to "Henry S. Spang"
4. PRR "Grand Rapids Inn" was renamed to "E.T. Weir"
5. PRR "Kane Inn" was renamed to "Cincinnati Inn"
6. PRR "Lima Inn" was renamed to "John Pitcairn"
7. PRR "Piqua Inn" was renamed to "Jeffery Scaife"
8. PRR "Tyrone Inn" was briefly renamed to "James Hay Reed" before being renamed to "B.F. Jones"

Sources:

1. Sleeper information from Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database at: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Renumbering information from "Streamliner Cars Volume 2: The Budd Company" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

3. Cars located via Jerry LaBoda's photo links website: http://passcarphotos.info/

4. PRR sleeper information from D. Garrett Spear's roster pages at: http://prr.railfan.net/passenger/GSPEAR/

5. Cars located via http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/

Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR/N&W Sleepers to Commuter Service
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:24 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:20 pm
Posts: 187
What a waste of space, is it necessary to copy a post over again? I don't have a problem reading the post the first time. Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR/N&W Sleepers to Commuter Service
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:22 pm
Posts: 219
My pet peeve, too. That is the function of the "delete" button.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR/N&W Sleepers to Commuter Service
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:54 pm 
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Posts: 1734
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Thanks CBQ483 and MRLX1020 for all the additional information!

Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: PRR/N&W Sleepers to Commuter Service
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:09 pm 

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 11:27 am
Posts: 434
Location: Switching the Coach Yard
...yep, I just hate it when someone shares their first hand knowledge but doesn't edit to my satisfaction. I know where to find that MRLX 1020 guy, lets get the tar and feathers out and maybe, just maybe we can get him to never share the info EVER again.

Why don't you just thank him for filling in all the blanks he filled in and let it go. Or are we to the point that bashing editorial form is better than contributing to the preservation effort.

ETA


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 Post subject: Re: PRR/N&W Sleepers to Commuter Service
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:20 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:22 pm
Posts: 69
etalcos wrote:
...yep, I just hate it when someone shares their first hand knowledge but doesn't edit to my satisfaction. I know where to find that MRLX 1020 guy, lets get the tar and feathers out and maybe, just maybe we can get him to never share the info EVER again.

Why don't you just thank him for filling in all the blanks he filled in and let it go. Or are we to the point that bashing editorial form is better than contributing to the preservation effort.

ETA


Thanks ETA - I guess I should have just put the information in a blank reply instead of adding it into the original list so someone else didn't have to spend the 45 minutes to piece it all together again. In hindsight, maybe I should have put it in bold or italics...

MRLX 1020


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 Post subject: Re: PRR/N&W Sleepers to Commuter Service
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:28 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1590
Location: Southern California
MRLX1020 wrote:
In hindsight, maybe I should have put it in bold or italics..
That would have made your updates easy to find and read. Maybe even a comment that you'd updated the listing.

As you can tell, not everyone know what you were doing.

Thank you for the information.

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 Post subject: Re: PRR/N&W Sleepers to Commuter Service
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:04 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 366
Location: Morganton, N.C.
I thought it odd at first, myself, that the original post was repeated but quickly caught on that you had added more info. While I agree that using bold or italics would have helped make it easier to spot the info is of great value and will help to fill in the histories of many of the survivors. Thanks so very much for the additional info!!!

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 Post subject: Re: PRR/N&W Sleepers to Commuter Service
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:11 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 366
Location: Morganton, N.C.
It should be noted that cars marked for "Akron Regional METRO Transit Authority" have, for the most part, been leased to the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic RR and still carry their MARC numbers.

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 Post subject: Re: PRR/N&W Sleepers to Commuter Service
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:52 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 366
Location: Morganton, N.C.
Some corrections in bold...

#1494 Wythe County PC #3236; NJT #unknown; no further disposition NJT 5420

#1482 Mercer County To RRMofPA in 1978 - N&W n/a Mercer County 1482 84 seat coach PC 1482 MDOT 1403 MARC 112 to WMSR 112

#1501 Massillon Inn NJT #unknown #5428; no further disposition

#1519 Hamilton Inn SEMTA #101; MARC #141; to B&O Museum 2002, named "Lisa Wake" Name appears to be "Lisa Ware" in photos

The circus train was still using the "RBX" reporting mark in 1993, cars recieved two-digit numbers with this reporting mark until changed to the "RBBX" reporting mark

#1497 Duke University PC #3239; NJT #5422; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 RBX 53 R# to 41309

#1512 Lima Inn NJT #5437; to URHS 1989; to Ringling Bros. 1991 RBX 46 R# to #41308

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 Post subject: Re: PRR/N&W Sleepers to Commuter Service
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:04 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:07 am
Posts: 552
Rainier Rails wrote:
I'm trying to find the current locations of the Budd-built PRR 21RM and N&W 10RM-6DB sleepers that were rebuilt in 1963-1964 to coaches and ended up in NJT, SEMTA, and MARC commuter service.



Don't forget that SEMTA service ended in Oct 1983 and the cars they had went to Metro North before going to MARC.

Bob H


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 Post subject: Re: PRR/N&W Sleepers to Commuter Service
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:18 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 366
Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
"Don't forget that SEMTA service ended in Oct 1983 and the cars they had went to Metro North before going to MARC.


Thanks for reminding me... Poughkeepsie, N.Y., 8 September 84...

Image

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 Post subject: Re: PRR/N&W Sleepers to Commuter Service
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1734
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Thanks to Jerry and Bob for the additional information!

Remaining Questions:

1. Currently, I have two different cars numbered as MARC #109. Can anyone clarify the discrepancy?

a. N&W Emory & Henry College/PRR #1488 which was initially Maryland DOT #1409--this is one of the four cars which were stored in Florida before being acquired earlier this year by TVRM

b. PRR #8272 Marietta Inn/PRR #1530 which was initially SEMTA #102--this is now RBBX #41315

2. Did Maryland DOT acquire their cars directly from PC in 1976? In addition, W. David Randall's Streamliner Cars Volume Two lists four of the MDOT cars as having gone to the RRMofPA in 1978--when did MDOT acquire those cars? I currently have 20 cars which carried MDOT #14xx/#15xx-series numbers--the MDOT #14xx-series renumberings make sense, but the #15xx-series numbers not so much--can anyone clarify??

N&W Virginia Polytechnic Institute/PRR #1480 to MDOT #1401 to MARC #101

N&W Campbell County/PRR #1481 to RRMofPA to MDOT #1402 to MARC #102

N&W Mercer County/PRR #1482 to RRMofPA to MDOT #1403 to MARC #112

N&W Franklin County/PRR #1483 to MDOT #1404 to MARC #113

N&W Virginia Military Institute/PRR #1484 to MDOT #1405 to MARC #110

N&W Washington & Lee University/PRR #1485 to RRMofPA to MDOT #1406 to MARC #106

N&W Randolph Macon College/PRR #1486 to MDOT #1407 to MARC #108

N&W Roanoke College/PRR #1487 to RRMofPA to MDOT #1408 to MARC #100

N&W Emory & Henry College/PRR #1488 to MDOT #1409 to MARC #109

N&W Scioto County/PRR #1489 to MDOT #1410 to MARC #103

N&W Augusta County/PRR #1490 to MDOT #1411 to MARC #111

N&W Mingo County/PRR #1491 to MDOT #1412 to MARC #104

N&W Hollins College/PRR #1496 to MDOT #1413--cracked center sill meant this car wasn't refurbished into the MARC Heritage Fleet--I'm assuming it was stripped of parts and scrapped--when was this?

N&W Ohio State University/PRR #1498 to MDOT #1414 to MARC #105

N&W University of Cincinnati/PRR #1499 to MDOT #1415 to MARC #107

PRR #8274 New Castle Inn/PRR #1539 to MDOT #1512 to MARC #151

PRR #8271 Mansfield Inn/PRR #1542 to MDOT #1513 to MARC #152

PRR #8289 Urbana Inn/PRR #1543 to MDOT #1501 to MARC #1xx

PRR #8252 Chester Inn/PRR #8252 William Thaw/PRR #1546 to MDOT #1515 to MARC #154

PRR #8285 Sunbury Inn/PRR #1548 to MDOT #1514 to MARC #1xx

3. During which years did MARC refurbish cars into the Heritage Fleet? I know a number of the cars acquired from NJT/Metro-North were refurbished in 1994--were all the cars done in that year?

4. Related to the above, were the 12 cars from SEMTA actually sold to Metro-North in 1983, or were they simply operated under long-term lease? When were these cars acquired by MARC? Also, when did MARC acquire the cars from NJT? 1989?

5. Regarding the disposition of cars from MARC: WMSR acquired their cars in 2000, SAM Shortline in 6/2001, and the B&O Museum in 2002--when did Ringling Brothers acquire their two cars from MARC? (The Marietta Inn/#41315 and the Sunbury Inn/#41317)

6. The four N&W cars which were initally acquired by SWGX/SAM Shortline and later acquired by Inland Lakes Railway/Florida Rail Adventures--did all four receive EOLX reporting marks? When did these cars make the move to Florida, and when were they put in storage? Besides the #1489/#103 Scioto County now in Roanoke, have the other three now been moved by TVRM?

7. PRR #8270 Logansport Inn/PRR #1538/PC #1538/NJT #1538/#5436--this car was used as a parts source by NJT--when was this car removed from revenue service and when was it scrapped at Elmira?

8. Does anyone know what #994xxx-series number PRR #8261 Hagerstown Inn/PRR #1526/PC #1526 now carries under CSX ownership? Has the conversion of this car to a Track Geometry configuration been completed? Outshop date? Also, was this one of the cars acquired by MDOT directly from PC? Also, I don't know what number this car carried for MARC (see below).

9. I have eight cars that I'm still missing numbers for:

a. PRR #8286 Tiffin Inn/PRR #1504/PC #1504/SEMTA #104/MARC #unknown/B&O Museum Ron Drucker

b. PRR #8269 Lock Haven Inn/PRR #1525/PC #1525/NJT #1525/NJT #54xx-series number unknown/MARC #132/Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum/SLRG #132 (#800735)

c. PRR #8261 Hagerstown Inn/PRR #1526/PC #1526/MDOT?? #15xx-series number unknown/MARC #unknown/MRLX #800855/CSX #994xxx-series number unknown

d. PRR #8282 Sewickley Inn/PRR #1535/PC #1535/NJT #1535/NJT #54xx-series number unknown

e. PRR #8289 Urbana Inn/PRR #1543/PC #1543/MDOT #1501/MARC #unknown/B&O Museum Hershey Ware (on a side note, I realized after posting the thread that I had made a copying error when transferring from hand written notes to spreadsheet--on paper I had the names as "Hershey Ware" and "Lisa Ware"--but in the spreadsheet I had typed "Wake" instead--Oops!!)

f. PRR #8251 Chambersburg Inn/PRR #1544/PC #1544/NJT #1544/NJT #54xx-series number unknown/MARC #133/Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum/SLRG #133 (#800766)

g. PRR #8248 Butler Inn/PRR #1545/PC #1545/NJT #1545/NJT #54xx-series number unknown

h. PRR #8285 Sunbury Inn/PRR #1548/PC #3242/MDOT #1514/MARC #unknown/RBBX #41317

10. Regarding two of the wrecked/scrapped cars:

a. PRR #8259 Grand Rapids Inn/PRR #8259 E.T. Weir/PRR #1518/PC #1518/NJT #1518/#5433--this car was wrecked on Conrail in July of 1990--to my knowledge, NJT retired their cars in 1989--so who owned the #5433 when it was wrecked??

b. PRR #8288 Uniontown Inn/PRR #1549/PC #3243--this car was retired and scrapped in 1977--had this car been rejected by NJT for purchase due to a major mechanical or structural issue?

11. Finally, I have ten cars for which I don't have a disposition:

NJT Cars:

a. N&W Wythe County/PRR #1494/PC #3236/NJT #3236/#5420

b. PRR #8273 Massillon Inn/PRR #1501/PC #1501/NJT #1501/#5428

c. PRR #8278 Piqua Inn/PRR #8278 Jeffery Scaife/PRR #1515/PC #1515/NJT #1515/#5437

d. PRR #8280 Ravenna Inn/PRR #1531/PC #1531/NJT #1531/#5418

e. PRR #8276 Olean Inn/PRR #1532/PC #1532/NJT #1532/#5413

f. PRR #8282 Sewickley Inn/PRR #1535/PC #1535/NJT #1535/#54xx

g. PRR #8248 Butler Inn/PRR #1545/PC #1545/NJT #1545/#54xx

MARC Cars:

a. N&W University of Cincinnati/PRR #1499/PC #3241/MDOT #1415/MARC #107

b. PRR #8253 Coatesville Inn/PRR #1527/PC #1527/NJT #1527/#5434/MARC #148

SEMTA Cars:

a. PRR #8290 Van Wert Inn/PRR #1520/PC #1520/SEMTA #109


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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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Ted Brumberg


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