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"Lost" "Lackawanna" Steamer Found & Recovered in NJ!
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30716		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  "Lost" "Lackawanna" Steamer Found & Recovered in NJ!
If this is a joke, I'm not the one perpetrating it, Steve Barry is.

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/alb ... aid=270376

This is apparently Carter Construction 0-4-0T 24" #31, Baldwin, 6/1910, CN 34797:

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/ima ... er31-1.jpg

Listed at Steamlocomotive.com, but not The Steam Loco Directory of North America or other earlier lists.
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "Lost" "Lackawanna" Steamer Found & Recovered in NJ!
Facebook images look real enough, and I don't see a flooded quarry anywhere.
Author:  Mgoldman [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "Lost" "Lackawanna" Steamer Found & Recovered in NJ!
Keep it out of Missouri, lol!
(Kidding)

/Mitch
Author:  Les Beckman [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "Lost" "Lackawanna" Steamer Found & Recovered in NJ!
"Recovered"? In what way?
Author:  CPR4000 [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "Lost" "Lackawanna" Steamer Found & Recovered in NJ!
ADMIV, brother Anderson posted seconds after you with the story from Railfan's website:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30717

Link to story:
http://www.railfan.com/rf_railnews.php

This was kept quiet for a year in order to keep the engine safe from poachers. It was "discovered" last winter, but the ground never froze hard enough to get the equipment in to move it. Amazingly, it still has BOTH builder plates.

Walt Lankenau
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "Lost" "Lackawanna" Steamer Found & Recovered in NJ!
Not that I doubt Steve Barry's veracity for a millisecond, but given the past history of certain "discovered" (alleged) locos discussed here, I felt a little tongue-in-cheek was warranted. Besides which, "trust but verify"--I spent a half-hour or better flipping through no less than four references and three websites looking for verification that someone/something else knew of this loco's existence. Considering that they can't even hide similar locomotives in remote mountains in Arizona, the ability of this loco to lie "undiscovered" for decades not far from the likes of Carstens' staff and New Jersey railfans is remarkable.
Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: "Lost" "Lackawanna" Steamer Found & Recovered in NJ!
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Not that I doubt Steve Barry's veracity for a millisecond, but given the past history of certain "discovered" (alleged) locos discussed here, I felt a little tongue-in-cheek was warranted. Besides which, "trust but verify"--I spent a half-hour or better flipping through no less than four references and three websites looking for verification that someone/something else knew of this loco's existence. Considering that they can't even hide similar locomotives in remote mountains in Arizona, the ability of this loco to lie "undiscovered" for decades not far from the likes of Carstens' staff and New Jersey railfans is remarkable.


I know with today's internet, all of the steam directories that have been written, and other resources; we think we know where each and every steam locomotive in existance is out there.

But, even with all the resources we have, that is not the case. Back in 2006, someone found an intact steam locomotive sitting in a warehouse. It was an 0-4-0T owned by Levinos Shipping; and was H.K. Porter 7032/1926, 3 feet in gauge. (Yes, I have multiple pictures, including the builder's plate.)

There are probably others out there. As best as I can tell; 51 locomotives have been found in North America since Conrad's directory was published in 1988.
Author:  MEC_557 [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: "Lost" "Lackawanna" Steamer Found & Recovered in NJ!
Neat find, I don't know where Westby Farm is but I've been in Andover many times since I have family there that live right along Lake Tranquility.
Author:  alcoguy1 [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: "Lost" "Lackawanna" Steamer Found & Recovered in NJ!
Im glad this locomotive has finally been preserved. I inquired about it about a year ago when some friends and I were looking for a project and was asked to keep its heritage and existance on the down low until the locomotive could be recovered for preservation. Im so happy it has survived in as good shape as it's in. Besides the 2' gauge 0-4-0t's at the Maine Narrow Gauge Museum, Boothbay Railway Village, and now the one in NJ, does anyone know of other existing Baldwin 2' 0-4-0t's?
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: "Lost" "Lackawanna" Steamer Found & Recovered in NJ!
I know that folks in NJ desperately want this to be a Lackawanna-related steam engine, but when I looked into its history with the help of some friends last year, I found a far different story which I shared with the museum who was interested in her.

Carter was engaged in build the western Connellsville ext. of the Western Maryland when this loco was built. They had a large fleet of narrow gauge tank engines on that project. As I recall, the build date better matched that project rather than the cut-off.

So how did it get to NJ?

Records show it was sold a few times and then wound up on one of the humus farm railroads about 5 miles or so from where she wound up at Westby Farm.

In my mind, this would make her even more significant to NJ history.

In any case, if there is evidence connecting her to the DL&W project, I have not seen it. What I have seen points to her history on the humus line, and circumstantial evidence points to her first role being on the WM.

What seems for sure is that the story being passed around that she worked on the DL&W and was abandoned - almost new - in the woods near a big fill is not true.

Rob
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: "Lost" "Lackawanna" Steamer Found & Recovered in NJ!
Well, it's no accident that I put "Lackawanna" in quotation marks....... <:-)
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: "Lost" "Lackawanna" Steamer Found & Recovered in NJ!
Of course, I can't find my notes on her, but...

When she was built, Carter Cons. was about to begin the Connellsville Ext of the Western Maryland. According to published sources, they had 41 narrow gauge lokies working the job by autumn of 1910 (months after the locomotive in question was built).

Consider this: Carter was preparing for the Connellsville Ext to begin when she was built. The DL&W Cut-Off was well underway and within 12-16 months of completion when this loco was built. I have not found evidence Carter worked the DL&W project.

A friend noted to me that her builders records show she was sold several times via dealers, apparently. It appears she wound up working Aphano Humus in NJ - just a few ridges over from the Westby Farm. I believe the frame of the "caboose" with her at Westby could be the remains of a humus wagon. After her humus days were done, she somehow wound up on the Westby farm.

As a ultra-rare survivor of the humus industry in NJ, I'd say she's far more valuable a piece of NJ history than the unlikely chance that she woked the Cut-Off project and then, as a 1 year old machine, was left in the woods by a contractor.

I've shared this info with several folks over the last year (once news of her made the Internet), and no one has come up with any data to counter it.

Rob Davis
Author:  Becky Morgan [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "Lost" "Lackawanna" Steamer Found & Recovered in NJ!
That line of work would make her more interesting to me, not less.
All too often, commonplace items are what get lost to history because they wear out in service and everyone thinks "Oh, there are plenty of those, no need to keep this one." The dirt cart/humus wagon is another case of that, something so common at the time that no one thought to preserve an example. The locomotive looks as if she still has most of her parts, in whatever rusted state, and her small size makes her a good and portable candidate for cosmetic restoration. Maybe she isn't as dramatic as a NYC Hudson, but she's important too.
Author:  railfanmag [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "Lost" "Lackawanna" Steamer Found & Recovered in NJ!
One of the reasons we thought that it was used in the construction of the Lackawanna Cutoff was there are photos of identical locomotives with distinctive large boxy wooden cabs used on the suspension bridges that were built for dropping rock to make the Pequest Fill from Andover westward. The combination of the photos and the locomotive's location of less than a mile from the east end of the Pequest Fill is what led to the Lackawanna connection. The Carter connection had us stumped, however, as we couldn't find Carter as a contractor on the Lackawanna.

The locomotive has both builder's plates intact, as well as both plates indicating it was part of the Baldwin lease fleet.

While the cab is gone in the attached photos, there was enough wood left on it when we first discovered the locomotive that we have a pretty good idea of what the cab looked like. One entire wooden roof arch survived, so we know the radius of the curved roof and the width of the cab. Wood that is usable for patterns, as well as a lot of loose metal, has been picked up and stored.

The "caboose" sits on what appears to be a narrow gauge flat car. The caboose was added to the top of the car sometime in the 1960s by the farmer at Westby, best as we can tell probably as a club house for his kids.

Only the farm folks knew about this locomotive for the longest while. The successor to the farm passed away a few years ago and the farm became a conservancy. Last winter one of the conservancy's employees looked out the back window of the house and noticed a steam locomotive sitting back there (it wasn't visible in the summer). She contacted her railfan father, thinking she had discovered an amusement locomotive that may have run on the farm. When her father got there he discovered it was a gen-you-ine 1910 Baldwin. As the article noted, due to the fact that the builder's plates were still on it as well as other cool things like the stack cap, we kept this quiet until the locomotive could be secured.

We're doing an article next month on the steam locomotive that sat within eight miles of our office without being noticed. If anyone finds out any more info, let me know. Thanks.

EDIT - to see more photos of the move check out my personal website at http://www.railroadphotographer.com/Pho ... 0973_EdLWB
Author:  dinwitty [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "Lost" "Lackawanna" Steamer Found & Recovered in NJ!
nifty, almost looks like the AHM HO 2 1/2 steamer they sold.

I have heard rumors of a buried steamer in a swamp out west of Ft Wayne, IN off maybe the wabash or nickel plate from a derailment, and never pulled out.
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