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 Post subject: Amtrak SDP40F cab and font questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:15 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:54 pm
Posts: 53
Well gang, I've come to you again for guidance. Are there any color photos around that show the interior of the SDP40Fs when they wore Phase I? I am trying to determine what color the cabs were painted in when they were built.

Secondly, does anyone have the font name and dimensions for the numberboard of Phase I SDP40Fs, like the one in this photo?: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=528424 -- How about the number placed on the sides of the Phase 1-painted carbody?

Thanks for any info!


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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak SDP40F cab and font questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:15 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:13 pm
Posts: 398
Location: Baltimore. MD
I cannot say for the numberboard, but the side numbers are either Regular Helvetica or Medium Helvetica.

Attachment:
9959_1254200844.jpg
9959_1254200844.jpg [ 17.19 KiB | Viewed 6914 times ]



Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak SDP40F cab and font questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:22 pm
Posts: 67
Chris:

I did some lettering earlier this year on an EMD geep the same vintage as the 644 and used Trebuchet MS lettering with a modified serif for the numberboards. Let me dig up a photo of the unit, but the lettering sample is attached below.

Can't wait to see Rudolph the red nosed SDP40F! The signature on those units is the vinyl clad safety chain that made them appear to be smiling, as the 644 is in the attached photo.

MRLX 1020


Attachments:
644 Trebuchet MS.jpg
644 Trebuchet MS.jpg [ 4.17 KiB | Viewed 6735 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak SDP40F cab and font questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:47 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 150
Hi Chris, I think the cab interiors were gray. In this photo:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 33&nseq=16

You can see gray on the back wall through the door, and the dashboard by the windshields also looks gray.

And in this one, even though it's not in delivery paint, the rear wall is definitely gray:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 01&nseq=70

Walt Lankenau


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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak SDP40F cab and font questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:09 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:57 pm
Posts: 25
Location: St. Louis, MO
MRLX1020 wrote:
Chris:

I did some lettering earlier this year on an EMD geep the same vintage as the 644 and used Trebuchet MS lettering with a modified serif for the numberboards. Let me dig up a photo of the unit, but the lettering sample is attached below.

Can't wait to see Rudolph the red nosed SDP40F! The signature on those units is the vinyl clad safety chain that made them appear to be smiling, as the 644 is in the attached photo.

MRLX 1020


That font is close, but is not an exact match. Note the upper portion of the 6 curves more back towards the bottom on the SDP40F photo. The 4s also have more width between the horizontal and diagonal strokes.

I've gone through the same trouble trying to match fonts from logos and publications that I've scanned and attempted to clean up.

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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak SDP40F cab and font questions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:33 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:54 pm
Posts: 53
CPR4000 wrote:
Hi Chris, I think the cab interiors were gray. In this photo:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 33&nseq=16

You can see gray on the back wall through the door, and the dashboard by the windshields also looks gray.

And in this one, even though it's not in delivery paint, the rear wall is definitely gray:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 01&nseq=70

Walt Lankenau



I'm not sure about the gray. That wall may have a hint of seafoam green, and it's especially difficult to tell from photos taken at a distance. Different film speeds and photographer types can present the wrong type of hue or color level. I've found seafoam green to be the base coat during last week's paint prep. The question is, was that Amtrak's base coat or Santa Fe's base coat? I'm assuming that the entire cab was redone when EMD converted these for Santa Fe, and again when Santa Fe rebuilt them.


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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak SDP40F cab and font questions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:37 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:54 pm
Posts: 53
MRLX1020 wrote:
Chris:

I did some lettering earlier this year on an EMD geep the same vintage as the 644 and used Trebuchet MS lettering with a modified serif for the numberboards. Let me dig up a photo of the unit, but the lettering sample is attached below.

Can't wait to see Rudolph the red nosed SDP40F! The signature on those units is the vinyl clad safety chain that made them appear to be smiling, as the 644 is in the attached photo.

MRLX 1020


Not bad! The 4 almost looks close to the original, but the 6 definitely needs some work. The "closed circle" part of the 6 needs to be smaller and lower, with the upper part arcing further to the right. But this is a start...


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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak SDP40F cab and font questions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:38 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:54 pm
Posts: 53
SZuiderveen wrote:
I cannot say for the numberboard, but the side numbers are either Regular Helvetica or Medium Helvetica.

Attachment:
9959_1254200844.jpg



Steve


Yeah, looks to be Helvetica. At least that font's easy to find and use. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak SDP40F cab and font questions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:21 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 442
Location: Illinois
F40PHR231 wrote:
CPR4000 wrote:
Hi Chris, I think the cab interiors were gray. In this photo:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 33&nseq=16

You can see gray on the back wall through the door, and the dashboard by the windshields also looks gray.

And in this one, even though it's not in delivery paint, the rear wall is definitely gray:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 01&nseq=70

Walt Lankenau



I'm not sure about the gray. That wall may have a hint of seafoam green, and it's especially difficult to tell from photos taken at a distance. Different film speeds and photographer types can present the wrong type of hue or color level. I've found seafoam green to be the base coat during last week's paint prep. The question is, was that Amtrak's base coat or Santa Fe's base coat? I'm assuming that the entire cab was redone when EMD converted these for Santa Fe, and again when Santa Fe rebuilt them.


Gray with a hint of "seafoam green" sounds much like a color EMD refers to as "Suede Gray", often used to pant cab interiors, as well as almost anything and everything under the hood...(mmm... cowl in this case!)

Jeff

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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak SDP40F cab and font questions
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:37 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:54 pm
Posts: 53
So, what does RYPN think of this?

I used WhatTheFont (WTF) to upload an image and identify a matching font. It pointed me towards Churchward Designs Regular. CDR isn't quite the winner just yet, because while most of the numerals on there are a great match, the "0" and "1" numerals don't resemble what the SDP40Fs had. This might be due to this font being upgraded or modified since the 70s, the latest modification happened just a few years ago. If that's the case, then there's a good chance that this font was applied to SDP40F numberboards.

I posted a thread on the font website asking for any further guidance. Otherwise, this font seems to be the best bet for new numberboards.


Attachments:
644fonts.jpg
644fonts.jpg [ 45.15 KiB | Viewed 6440 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak SDP40F cab and font questions
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:05 pm
Posts: 663
Location: MA
It was green under Amtrak, can't find it now but when looking for public domain F40PH photos I came across a cab shot that I downloaded upon closer inspection I relised it was a SDP40F cab and it was green.


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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak SDP40F cab and font questions
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 150
The six looks dead on Chris, but the fours don't. Notice that the "triangle" in the fours on the locomotive look like 45-degree triangles, while those on your new font look like 30-60-90's.

Walt


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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak SDP40F cab and font questions
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8353
Location: Baltimore, MD
I mus say that although I laud and respect a concerted effort to ascertain historical accuracy in a restoration project such as this, anyone who wants to nit-pick the final result to the extent of saying "wrong" to what's put on the 644 automatically, by default, volunteers to procure the replacements and verify to everyone's satisfaction the improvement in accuracy. >:-)


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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak SDP40F cab and font questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:32 pm
Posts: 19
So with Amtrak's recent announcement of Heritage units and a museum train tour, has Amtrak approached you about using this locomotive for their tour Chris?


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 Post subject: Re: Amtrak SDP40F cab and font questions
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:25 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:54 pm
Posts: 53
usaf_andrew wrote:
So with Amtrak's recent announcement of Heritage units and a museum train tour, has Amtrak approached you about using this locomotive for their tour Chris?



Yes they have. Discussions began last April and continued to as late as last week.

To keep a long story short: An arrangement couldn't be worked out because Amtrak cannot use their funds to pay for a restoration of a locomotive that they don't own. Now if railfans came together and pitched in $30,000 for a full restoration, then opportunities might present themselves. The bulk of the costs would go towards the nose restoration and the paint job.

If the railfans want to see a restored SDP40F, they should contribute to it.


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