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 Post subject: Re: TVRM's Southern #630
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:23 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:24 pm
Posts: 348
wilkinsd wrote:
Is that the replica "Coaster tender" she is paried with?


Do you mean Coster? 630's tender is an all-welded tank (with welded rivet heads) sitting atop a Ms1 frame...the one which K&T #12, er 4501, wore when traveling from Stearns, KY. 4501 continued to use that tender until approx. 1969 when Southern pulled a larger Central of Georgia tender* out of work train service for use. This increased capacities substantially. BTW: Southern later replaced the tank with a welded version (without welded rivet heads) which is still in use.

Why wasn't 630's Ks1 tender reused? Too deteriorated. Why wasn't 4501's old tender tank used? Too deteriorated. Since a new tank would be required it was decided to "upgrade" to a larger tender frame for capacity issues. That is how/why 630's current tender ended up as a combination of 4501's old tender frame with a new tank and other components.

*Who knows what type of locomotive it is from? We know it wasn't a "Big Apple" 4-8-4 because the tenders were purposely short in order to fit on small-town turntables. Maybe a J1 2-10-2?


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM's Southern #630
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:34 am
Posts: 371
Yes, that is the replicated Coster Shop tender tank. I had envisioned it remain in it's all welded configuration like the Coster Shop tanks but a benefactor wanted to see rivets on it and he funded their application.

As Steve pointed out, the 10,000 gallon Coster shop tanks were placed on the tender frames of retired Ms Class (2-8-2) locomotives. This is the third tender tank behind 630. The original tank was a 6,000 gallon tank, the second tank had a 7,500 gallon capacity, and now this one. The 7,500 gallon tank was taken from another group of K Class consolidations.

There are existing photographs of K Class consolidations receiving the 10,000 gallon Coster Shop tanks so we do have historic precedence for doing this.

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 Post subject: Re: TVRM's Southern #630
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:28 pm
Posts: 205
CarNutandTrainNut wrote:

Where is the humor??



I believe the humor requires a bit of a history on the excursion program, and Southern Railway operating practices in general. The 2716 arrived in Birmingham as a pure C&O Kanawha, in authentic C&O livery with lowered headlight and everything. The engine that emerged on excursion specials was a Southern Railway 2-8-4....except for the fact that SR never owned a 2-8-4.

Remember, the Southern turned to diesel very early, and never owned any the later superpower steam. They were operating on a fleet on large 2-8-2s (bigger than 4501), and some 2-10-2s. They chose to go with F-units instead of ordering state-of-the-art steam in the 1940s.

When 2716 came out in pure SR freight livery with all the modifications, it was a re-writing of history so to speak. The resulting transformation was probably very close to what would have happened if Southern had followed the NKP, RF&P, PM, C&O, Virginian, etc. and ordered some Lima-built Berkshires--which is not an impossibility by any stretch of the imagination. The end result was that Model Railroader magazine gave Bill Purdie the kitbashing reward for that year for turning a C&O Kanawha into a Southern Railway Berkshire.

....and as far as Eagles go, well, it's safe to say that more Southern Railway steam engines were customized than any other railroad in the country---to the point that finding two identical engines of the same class was virtually impossible by the end of steam. Local shops were semi-automomous, and the practices of Knoxville only vaguely resembled those of Chattanooga, Bristol, Asheville, or anywhere else on the system. The practices were distinct enough that you could tell where each engine had been assigned over it's life when repairs were due if you knew what to look for. Combine that with crews adding their own whistles, eagles, candlestick holders, extra pinstriping and various other customizations to their engines, the eagle on 2716 only added to the illusion of the what-could-have-been. Of course, not everyone got the joke.
Kevin (leaving all rumours of the feared-but-never-realized green and gold Royal Hudson unmentioned at this point)


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM's Southern #630
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:41 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:28 pm
Posts: 205
Newriver400 wrote:
Red cab roofs are rumoured to be CNO&TP practice of times gone by, but 6330 certainly had a black roof on the final run in 1953.



If the red cab roof ever existed on the CNO&TP, it certainly didn't last very long for cleaning issues if nothing else. Can't imagine that red cab roof looking very red after going through all of those tunnels, so my guess is that any trial period of red roofs was likely very short-lived if it ever existed at all.

There aren't any photos of any of the Ps-4 4-6-2s with red cab roofs either. Never rule out anything completely when it comes to the Southern Railway, but it certainly wasn't common place by any means.




Newriver400 wrote:
There is some evidence to support a 2-8-2 in green at some point, but I can't recall the details off hand.


Never heard that one before. The 4-6-2s were definitely green, and the TS-1 4-8-2s were green, but never heard of any 2-8-2s prior to 4501. Any additional info as to when/where this might have happened?
Kevin


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM's Southern #630
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:42 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:06 am
Posts: 465
Location: NE PA
Geeez, I always thought it was a gold turkey buzzard! The things you learn on the Internet. The 630 looks great, congratulations to all who labored on her. Look forward to seeing her stretch her legs soon.

Mike Tillger


Last edited by Mike Tillger on Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TVRM's Southern #630
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2438
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
gmray wrote:
Yes, that is the replicated Coster Shop tender tank. I had envisioned it remain in it's all welded configuration like the Coster Shop tanks but a benefactor wanted to see rivets on it and he funded their application.

As Steve pointed out, the 10,000 gallon Coster shop tanks were placed on the tender frames of retired Ms Class (2-8-2) locomotives. This is the third tender tank behind 630. The original tank was a 6,000 gallon tank, the second tank had a 7,500 gallon capacity, and now this one. The 7,500 gallon tank was taken from another group of K Class consolidations.

There are existing photographs of K Class consolidations receiving the 10,000 gallon Coster Shop tanks so we do have historic precedence for doing this.


Steve and Mark,

That is a beautiful-looking tender. The locomotive attached to it doesn't look half-bad either. Nice work.

I assume the coal capacity is about 19 tons or so?

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David M. Wilkins

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM's Southern #630
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:25 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:14 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Spartanburg, SC
wilkinsd wrote:

Steve and Mark,

That is a beautiful-looking tender. The locomotive attached to it doesn't look half-bad either. Nice work.

I assume the coal capacity is about 19 tons or so?



I believe that I read the new tender holds 16 tons of coal and 10,000 gallons of water.


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM's Southern #630
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:25 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:01 pm
Posts: 43
Wonder if they have an auxillary tender for her??


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM's Southern #630
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:28 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:28 pm
Posts: 205
CarNutandTrainNut wrote:
Wonder if they have an auxillary tender for her??


yes. They have used it with 610 on the Summerville trips in the past--2007 NRHS Convention, among others.


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM's Southern #630
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:33 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:14 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Spartanburg, SC
CarNutandTrainNut wrote:
Wonder if they have an auxillary tender for her??


As Kevin mentioned, TVRM has WT 51, which was the auxillary water tender used regularly behind 630's sister 722 during service on the Southern Steam program. The auxillary water tender used with 630 during its Southern excursion service WT 49 is (or was) at the Kentucky Railway Museum and was used with L&N 4-6-2 152 during its mainline excursion trips on the Seaboard System/CSX and Norfolk Southern in the mid to late 1980s.


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM's Southern #630
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2438
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Steven Ashley wrote:
CarNutandTrainNut wrote:
Wonder if they have an auxillary tender for her??


As Kevin mentioned, TVRM has WT 51, which was the auxillary water tender used regularly behind 630's sister 722 during service on the Southern Steam program. The auxillary water tender used with 630 during its Southern excursion service WT 49 is (or was) at the Kentucky Railway Museum and was used with L&N 4-6-2 152 during its mainline excursion trips on the Seaboard System/CSX and Norfolk Southern in the mid to late 1980s.


KRM has 2 ex Southern auxiliary tenders. One is WT 49 and I do not know the number on the other one. They were received in trade to Southern for the ex-L&N 2-8-4 tender that trailed 610 and 2716 during their excursion careers. I think this is the tender that was at VMT that is now going to FWRHS.

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David M. Wilkins

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM's Southern #630
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:15 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:11 am
Posts: 129
Location: Missoula, MT
I see NS has posted video and pictures of 630 under steam for the first time. Go social media!

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James Maxwell
Missoula, MT
Steam Traction Engineer


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM's Southern #630
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:51 pm
Posts: 153
So.... we can all start brooding over 4501 now?

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Brian Rogers
Peoria IL
That which is seen is temporary, that which is unseen is eternal, therefore, focus on the unseen things.


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM's Southern #630
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:46 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:43 am
Posts: 388
Location: Dalton, Georgia
Unseenthings wrote:
So.... we can all start brooding over 4501 now?


You're 13 years late. I've been brooding over the Famous since I ran her on her last trip in 1998. Green, Gold, and Immortal! I'm definitely thinking that eagle on my shelf might have a new perch in the near future. She did, after all, wear one in regular service under Daddy Lee when she was in Princeton, Indiana.

On another note, I was also a bit disappointed that the all welded Coster tank wasn't left rivetless, but the rivets did turn out nice. Smokebox definitely needs cosmetic rivets. Looks like a jacketed N&W smokebox as it is now.

To Serving the South (and the Norfolk SOUTHERN)!

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM's Southern #630
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:28 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:19 pm
Posts: 58
AlderGulch12 wrote:
I see NS has posted video and pictures of 630 under steam for the first time. Go social media!
Link please. I checked their Facebook and saw pictures, but no video..


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