I've been told by someone that the same scenario happened on the SP when Portland wanted a display engine, the first in line was 4449. Next engine was 4458, roller bearing equipped. Missed it by that much!

Well, I'm happy with that outcome. Heck, any GS type would be great. The lines of the streamlining make the paint job look that much better.

Les,
Not to get too off topic here, but yes I have heard similar stories if the IC.
They stockpiled steamers for some time till scrap prices rose to get top dollar.

I think the Kentucky Railway Museum tried to BUY the 2613, but (not knowing ALL the details) found it was too expensive. (The story I heard in a nutshell)

As far as being "firsts" the other story I heard was that the 1518 (now on display in Paducah) was the LAST steamer IC had on the property.

Sorry group for diverging off topic!!!
Bruce

Don't worry. I think I should have the topic changed to make this a more general discussion. Heck, if I learn enough, I'll might write an article for R&R on this topic.

Although I never saw one (they were long gone by the time we moved to Illinois in 1954), I really admire the clean lines of the TP&W's 80-series 4-8-4s. With disc drivers, air pump shields on the pilot, and some side skirting, they strike me as "beautiful" engines. Here's a photo from George Elwood's site:

TP&W sure didn't get any exposure for some reason. These are kind of smallish 4-8-4s but clean lined and attractive.
I'm partial to Frisco's 4500s in the as delivered paint scheme. They shared many similarities with the Burlington's 5600s.

Well, look at some of the CN confederations. Because of their size, they were a go-anywhere type of engine. Chances are that the TP&W northerns had that kind of advantage as well. Anyone agree with that?

Although there wasn't much of "anywhere" to go to on the TP&W compared to the Canadian National, there is something to your suggestion. The "West End" of the TP&W is not the heaviest rail, especially the branch from La Harpe into Keokuk (which we happen to live along, now operated by Pioneer Railcorp's Keokuk Junction Railway). Yet in the halcyon days of the TP&W, these 4-8-4s picked up a refrigerator train from the Rock Island (coming down the line from Eldon, Iowa) and took it across the Mississippi on the swing bridge and over to Peoria over the "West End." I found this photo of one of the "80s" leaving Keokuk with the refrigerator train at the Keokuk Public Library (date unknown). I was surprised to learn that these 4-8-4s ran on this line.

The TP&W locomotives were some of (if not THE) lightest 4-8-4s; they were the basis for the 1946 NdeM locos, both Alco and BLW-built. A very good-looking and clean-lined design, that TP&W engine.

One possible reason for the lack of TP&W photos of the late steam era is that from the early 30s until 1947, TP&W's president, George McNear, was virulently anti-rail labor union, and the railroad had a very active PD. Railfans and anyone else with a camera were not welcome at all. There were a number of violent strikes against the TP&W in the 1940s.

The railroad dieselized quickly and early after McNear's death in 1947.

Howard P.

For some time, I have felt there was a marked stylistic comparison between the TP&W 4-8-4s (Alco, 1937) and the Rutland 4-8-2s (Alco, 1946). The dimensions differed, of course; e.g. the TP&W engines had 69-inch drivers, the Rutland's 73-inch. But I suspect Alco designers re-used some of the TP&W plans for the Rutland's "Green Hornets."

Richard -

Thanks for the "side by side" photo's of the Rutland 4-8-2 and the TP&W's 4-8-4's. Now if someone could do the same with the TP&W engines and the NdeM Niagra's, that would be great.

Les

We've still got the 2500 on static display in Centralia. A local resident generously donated the money for roof and that has made a big difference. The CN also donated a paint job in 2007, and she looks great.

My grandfather Jim Adams was the prime mover in getting her saved back in 1962. He founded the "Age of Steam Memorial" non-profit along with Ernie Dolan and Leo Jonas to maintain her.

You can check out our Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Age-of-St ... 54?fref=ts

We also have a website: http://www.ageofsteammemorial.org/index.htm

Thanks,
Rich

PS: Jim's 99 now and still gives tours! You can reach him on the contact page of the website.

Rich -

Glad to hear Jim is still around. I had some conversations with him some time back about the ex-IC Iowa Division offset cupola steel caboose that we have at HVRM. We have never been able to find the original IC number, and Jim gave me a lot of ideas about where to find it (the caboose had a fire somewhere in its past, so that has not helped). I don't know if Jim remembers our conversations, but give him a "hey" from me the next time you see him.

To get back to the original subject of this thread, does anyone know what color the engine/tender stripe of the TP&W 80 class 4-8-4's might have been? Better yet, does anyone have a color photo of one?

Thanks.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

Having seen SP 4449, UP 844 and ATSF 3751 in action over the last 30 years, I put all three in the "great locomotives" category. The fact that all three are in operating condition well into the 21st Century is a tribute to the countless hours of work spent in keeping these wonderful machines alive. They represent the ultimate development in steam power in North America. One could apply that designation to certain other types, but the 4-8-4 was the most widely used design in that category. (note that I am more of a traction fan who became interested in steam long after diesel power took over that railways of America)