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 Post subject: Re: Passenger cars south of the border
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:08 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:43 am
Posts: 388
Location: Dalton, Georgia
M.J. Kershner wrote:
Read the entire discussion.

-Micah


Thanks. I was trying to think of a terse but not terribly insulting thing to say. You covered it nicely with four words. I like young energetic enthusiasts, but don't take yourself too seriously or try to interject when you have nothing of substance to say (unless you're injecting humor). I was young and precocious, but also had a big mouth (still do). A lot more to be learned by asking intelligent questions and just listening.

As for those responding about south of the border, what non-tourist service is still available in ol' Mexico?

As for equipment, I was/am extremely interested in heavyweights (ALL) and lightweight NYC carbon steel smooth side cars.

Thanks,
Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger cars south of the border
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:06 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 964
Location: Leicester, MA.
Newriver400 wrote:
M.J. Kershner wrote:
Read the entire discussion.

-Micah


Thanks. I was trying to think of a terse but not terribly insulting thing to say. You covered it nicely with four words. I like young energetic enthusiasts, but don't take yourself too seriously or try to interject when you have nothing of substance to say (unless you're injecting humor). I was young and precocious, but also had a big mouth (still do). A lot more to be learned by asking intelligent questions and just listening.

As for those responding about south of the border, what non-tourist service is still available in ol' Mexico?

As for equipment, I was/am extremely interested in heavyweights (ALL) and lightweight NYC carbon steel smooth side cars.

Thanks,
Mike

No, I'm trying to get an idea of the Saudi owned obs... I'm guessing it's the C&O obs that's in mexico? I'm having trouble processing

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 Post subject: Re: Passenger cars south of the border
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:49 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:09 am
Posts: 34
Location: Deep River, Connecticut
Newriver400 wrote:
That would be fantastic! But there is that very real tavern-lounge Powhatan Arrow obs car in Riyadh... It's about time to get a cultural contribution from the oil money. I'm thinking fully funded restoration or perhaps fully restored and shipped via one of the kingdom's Russian built An-124's... It's only money, and the royal family has plenty!


As Micah said READ!


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger cars south of the border
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:19 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 964
Location: Leicester, MA.
J. Rufus Phogbound wrote:
Newriver400 wrote:
That would be fantastic! But there is that very real tavern-lounge Powhatan Arrow obs car in Riyadh... It's about time to get a cultural contribution from the oil money. I'm thinking fully funded restoration or perhaps fully restored and shipped via one of the kingdom's Russian built An-124's... It's only money, and the royal family has plenty!


As Micah said READ!

Ah, now I see. I thought that we were still in Mexico. My mistake.

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 Post subject: Re: Passenger cars south of the border
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:52 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:54 am
Posts: 789
Location: Califoothills / Midwest Prairies
How about some content here.... because googling is so hard to do. And comprehension, for that matter.
I am not sure of the heritage, but here are some examples of surviving cars:

Ultimo Tren en Buenavista Vias Verdes 2003
http://ndem.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=22161

Observation and Private Varnish
http://ferrocarrilmexicano.tripod.com/

Silver Planet
http://californiazephyr0.tripod.com/

Heavyweight observation car
http://www.mexicowoods.com/page5/files/1c0a443e15f7573283c61476bac4887d-339.html
Image

FT B unit, cabeese, and passenger cars Mexicali Rose and Maria Elena at Benjamin Hill
http://mexicanrailroads.blogspot.com/2009/01/benjanin-hill-around-shops.html
Image
Image
Image

Maybe just check the Passenger Car Photo index?
http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/Mexican.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger cars south of the border
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:20 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:25 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Joliet
Termite7 wrote:
Now (on another subject)...has anybody ever written a Saudi embassy and asked if that obs car could be gifted and returned to the US? It does not hurt to ask...you never know what might happen.

T7


Don't forget about the pre war CB&Q Twin Cities and Denver Zephyr train sets still over there. All of these cars are literally within a mile of the shipping port in Ad Dammam.


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger cars south of the border
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:05 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:43 am
Posts: 388
Location: Dalton, Georgia
o anderson wrote:
How about some content here.... because googling is so hard to do. And comprehension, for that matter.
I am not sure of the heritage, but here are some examples of surviving cars:

Ultimo Tren en Buenavista Vias Verdes 2003
http://ndem.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=22161

Observation and Private Varnish
http://ferrocarrilmexicano.tripod.com/

Silver Planet
http://californiazephyr0.tripod.com/

Maybe just check the Passenger Car Photo index?
http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/Mexican.htm


Most photos on Mr. LaBoda's site, while a great resource, does not indicate which cars are survivors. Some of this information can be deteremined based on captions and photo dates, but those posted at RRPicturearchive do not always clearly show the date of the photo and look very old, indeed.

No, Google searching is not hard, but I only turned up about 4 or 5 decent leads on just a handful of cars. I came to THE preservation board to see what others might know. I am aware that Sammy King and others familiar with south of the border railroading check here from time to time and thought they might provide guidance. Jim Herron has actually sold/escorted sold cars to Mexico as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger cars south of the border
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:03 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:25 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Joliet
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=26.4 ... 6&t=h&z=18

Here is what I believe to be the CB&Q Budd cars in Saudi Arabia. You can make out the unique bulge on the roofs of the power cars. You can also make out one Budd style obs, and if you scroll to the left a bit, past the yard near some industrial buildings, you'll see the other obs sitting with a couple more cars. There appear to be two more round end obs's there, which I assumed one would be the N&W obs. You can make out a couple RDC's as well.

I doubt this stuff will ever make it back here, but interesting none the less.

John


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger cars south of the border
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:30 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:37 pm
Posts: 435
Location: Missoula MT
Curiously, this post appeared over on the Passenger Car List just today. The thread is a discussion of CB&Q equipment stored around Denver, back in the day.

4e.
Re: some goodies for Q fans
Posted by: "Gordon Mott" gbmott@comcast.net u5427
Tue May 24, 2011 4:18 pm (PDT)


I rode one set, though I don't know which one, minus the observation in
about 1980 between Riyadh and Hofuf, Saudi Arabia. At that point it was
only used in extra weekend service. I recall specifically that on the wall
of the corridor of one of the former Pullmans, just after you entered from
the vestibule, there was still one of the Pullman posters advertising how
many passenger miles had been made in Pullman cars since the last fatal
accident. In 2004 I was at a meeting in Beirut and the VP-Operations of the
Saudi Railways said that both this train and the one Nebraska Zephyr set
that they owned were now retired. He recognized that they were of some
historical interest in the US and offered that if anyone were prepared to
pay for the cost of shipping them back to the US he would be happy to donate
them.

Gordon


Michael Seitz
Missoula MT


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger cars south of the border
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:50 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:03 pm
Posts: 248
Location: SE, Mich.
Looking at those pictures is quite intriguing. I think someone needs to make a trip and report back to us.

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Yield not to misfortunes, but advance all the more boldly against them.


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger cars south of the border
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:29 pm
Posts: 318
I am going to reassert my point that many of those pictures of equipment in Mexico are NOT current. Some of those have been floating around a long time.

All of those old photos of the PVs on the LaBoda site have been up for a while now and there is not telling when they were actually taken. Those images could easily be 20 years old or older.

KCS bought the NdeM did they not? Maybe a contact with KCS could be handy to learn if any passenger cars were part of the transaction. Maybe some track engineers or so fourth went into Mexico to inventory the equipment involved in the transaction?

T7


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger cars south of the border
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:50 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:22 pm
Posts: 429
Mr T7 and the forum

T7, the KCS took over the TFM, and operate it now as the KCS De Mexico.... Meanwhile I can tell you with total certainty, that upon the purchase by the KCS, an inventory of passenger equipment on the property was performed, and the results only located I believe 3 cars... Those results are a LA&SL Harriman style business car ( now named Ciudad de Mexico ) , that was an ex UP car that came back to the US last year, and was rebuilt and returned to Mexico, rebuilt as an open platform parlor, and two other cars that include a NYC lounge and a a ex MP food service car... That was the complete inventory of equipment that the KCS obtained and was on the property.

Since that purchase, the KCS sent the ex UP dome diner ( now the Monterrey ) they purchased from the dinner train in St. Louis to Mexico along with a ex hospital car turned generator car that also ran on the St. Louis dinner train ( now named Tampico )...
These two cars and the ex UP business car, became a miniature business car train, to be kept in Mexico... All cars are lettered for the KCS de Mexico....

here are a few photographs of the ex UP car during rebuilding ( the car was finished and returned to Mexico )

Hope this provides some current clarification. Photographs of the Tampico and Monterrey are also provided to show how things look now


Dean Levin


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger cars south of the border
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:19 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:22 pm
Posts: 429
Thought some would find this picture in that KCS ( ex UP / ex LA&SL ) car interesting... After demolition was performed, on a piece of wood inside the car you could see this old lettering... indicating its LA&SL history.... I think this car operated as TFM 99...


Dean Levin


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger cars south of the border
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:29 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:43 am
Posts: 388
Location: Dalton, Georgia
Termite7 wrote:
I am going to reassert my point that many of those pictures of equipment in Mexico are NOT current. Some of those have been floating around a long time.

All of those old photos of the PVs on the LaBoda site have been up for a while now and there is not telling when they were actually taken. Those images could easily be 20 years old or older.
T7


This was the point I was trying to make a bit more subtly to the "a Google search is so easy" commentary...

Thanks for making it ever more clear. I concur that many of the pics Jerry links to are indeed quite dated and most are certainly scans of older pics. Jerry doesn't advertise current or survivors with only some exceptions, and that's not what the crux of the site is in the first place - it is an EXCELLENT resource for doing research on passsenger cars, especially of years past.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger cars south of the border
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 448
Location: Byers, Colorado
Nothing gets the attention of an ego freak like myself more than seeing my name mentioned.... unfortunately, I do not have much of substance to share with you passenger car specialists, but I'll do what I can:

First off, it's about 20 years too late to do much passenger car recovery from Mexico, although it could still be possible. But, would it be worthwhile ??? My last visit to Mexico was a couple years ago, and I have to say that nowadays, if you remember the NdeM, narrow gauge, steam engines, caboose coffee, and passenger trains, you are considered quite the old head. What railroading we don't do in the bar, consisted of ghost railroading --- tracking abandoned grades and telling stories.... or else playing with our models.

Pretty much all the major Mexican cities have railroad museums, some cars are there, plus some nice old examples in executive service for Ferromex or KCSdeM. I do not have all the specifics for you, passenger cars are not my usual field of interest. Most of the good ones are gone now, BUENAVISTA STATION is hardly recognizable anymore !!!! Most stations are abandoned, but the few in use are usually wrapped in chain link fences and covered with microwave dishes. Modern railroading in Mexico is lots less colorful than it was not that long ago....

The book mentioned earlier in this thread is by Robert J. Wayner, called "The Cars That Went To Mexico". I swear I can't tell who published it, but I got my copy from KAREN'S BOOKS out in California. If she doesn't have it, you might try Gallagher's Books in Denver. Mrs. Gallagher can search anything for you, and she is not greedy when she turns up what you want. Anyhow, this book is great for modelers, but it does not tell which cars are still extant or not.

In the late 80s I used to hang out at Buenavista Station when I was on vacation in Mexico, and sometimes I would ride with the coachyard switch crews out to the giant coachyard at Pantaco, and sometimes they let me drive while we made up trains or sorted bad orders. Back then Pantaco was crammed with ex US passenger cars, as well as the NdeM (FNM) business car fleet. I knew I was seeing someplace very special (as well as off limits to most gringos), so I took lots of pictures in there. One such day I needed to instantly learn how to use a video camera, and I managed to get an hour or so of BetaMax tape recorded from the fireman's seat of the Pantaco switch job, also the roundhouse and hump yard at Valle de Mexico. These tapes are still in decent shape, and I just transfered them to DVD using a freshly rebuilt BetaMax studio deck. The idea is to edit them together with some better quality footage of the Buenavista rush hour, and to release these commercialy. If anybody is interested, they will be available at some unspecified and indeterminate time in the future through Reverand Ron McElrath and his Revelation Video company.

Hope this is helpful.

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Sammy KIng


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