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 Post subject: Southern Pacific triple diners, and other articulated cars
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:49 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 125
Not sure if this topic has ever been done before, but does anyone know how many articulated SP cars exist today? I know of two triple diners that were sold by the Ozark Mountain railcar, and of another painted in silver on the Niles Canyon? Any others? I've been trying to research a surviving list of these, and I haven't been able to find much. However if this topic has already been done, could a person please send a link to the forum this has been done in? One more thing. I have looked for this in interchange, and I haven't found much.

Thanks,

-SteamGuy73


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific triple diners, and other articulated ca
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:33 am 

One of the Ozark sets ended up at the Grapevine Vintage Railroad in Texas. Just saw it last week.


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific triple diners, and other articulated ca
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:01 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
Posts: 347
There are only 2 SP triple unit diners that have survived. One in CA and one in TX.

There are a handful of SP articulated coaches that still exist.


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific triple diners, and other articulated ca
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
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I know of 7 pairs of ex-SP articulated coaches that still exist. Not many, considering how many were built. Hopefully there are a few more out there I don't know about.


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific triple diners, and other articulated ca
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:29 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
One of the sets from the Cascades, #10280-#10282, is at the Niles Canyon Railway. It was built in 1949 by P-S in Lot #6816. #10280 is a kitchen-dormitory (Plan #7576), #10281 is a 56 seat diner (Plan #7577, originally 48 seats, increased in 1957), and #10282 is a 48 club (tavern) lounge (Plan #7578). This set was retired in 1968 and sold to Herbert Reichhold, who had the set moved to the Sierra RR in Jamestown; I don't know when the set moved to NCRY.

The set on the Grapevine Vintage RR is the #10277-#10279, built in 1941 by P-S in Lot #6638. #10277 is a kitchen-lounge (Plan #7454, originally a kitchen-dormitory, dormitory space replaced by lounge sometime in the 1960's), #10278 is a 46 seat diner lounge (Plan #7453, originally 48 seats, 2 seats replaced by telephone in 1956), and #10279 is a 44 seat club (tavern) lounge (Plan #7452). This was 1 of 2 sets sold to Judge Roy Hofheinz for the planned Astrodomain Hotel in Houston; the other was #10262-#10264 built in 1949 by P-S in Lot #6815 for the Shasta Daylight.

#10262 was a 66 seat coffee shop (café)-lounge (Plan #7572), #10263 was a kitchen (Plan #7573), and #10264 was a 66 seat diner (Plan #7574).

Both of the sets acquired by Hofheinz were later sold to Brian B. Garrett of Flint, TX. The #10262-#10264 was moved to storage at the Borden Dairy Company in Tyler, TX, and was later resold to Lone Star Steel in Dangerfield, TX. Lone Star initially planned to use the set as an employee lounge, but instead scrapped the set. The #10277-#10279 was moved to Garrett's Whistle Stop Ranch in Flint, along with several other SP lightweight cars (most were acquired from Amtrak) and a heavyweight business car (I recall this was either of SOU or CofG heritage, let me check on that; it might have also come from Hofheinz). 3 years ago, Garrett's collection was listed for sale on Ozark Mountain Railcar, and the #10277-#10279 went to the Grapevine Vintage RR.

The other SP cars Garrett owned were the:

Shasta Daylight 48 seat leg rest chair #2352 (P-S, Lot #6940, Plan #7571B, 1954), sold in 1973 to Amtrak as #4840, retired in 1976 and sold to Garrett.

Sunset Limited 44 seat leg rest chair #2375 (Budd, Lot #9613-140, 1954), sold in 1971 to Amtrak as #4438, retired in 1976 and sold to Garrett.

Economy baggage #6701 (Pacific Car & Foundry, 1962), to SPMW #6029, later retired and sold to Garrett.

Sunset Limited 10RM-6DB sleeper #9008 (Budd, Lot #9660-040, Plan #9522, 1950), sold in 1971 to Amtrak as #2687, retired in 1976 and sold to Garrett.

Sunset Limited 10RM-6DB sleeper #9010 (Budd, Lot #9660-040, Plan #9522, 1950), sold in 1971 to Amtrak as #2688, retired in 1975 and sold to Garrett.

City of San Francisco 10RM-6DB sleeper #9044 (P-S, Lot #6874, Plan #4140C, 1950, blunt end installed in 1953 and Plan changed to #4140D), retired in 1968 and subsequently sold to Garrett, later resold to Henry Ketcher in North Little Rock, now owned by the Iowa RHS/Boone & Scenic Valley as #85 City of San Francisco, rebuilt sometime in the 1980's to a lounge observation with open platform.

Sunset Limited 46 seat coffee shop (café)-diner #10408 (Budd, Lot #9609-040, 1950), reconfigured to a 36 seat hamburger grill diner-club (tavern) lounge in 1957, changed back to a 46 seat coffee shop (café)-diner in 1968, sold in 1971 to Amtrak as #8321, damaged in a wreck sometime in 1976 and sold to Garrett.

Does anyone know who acquired the other Garrett cars (besides the #10277-#10279) which were listed on Ozark Mountain Railcar? Thanks in advance.

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific triple diners, and other articulated ca
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:04 pm 
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Topfuel wrote:
I know of 7 pairs of ex-SP articulated coaches that still exist.


Class 64-ACW-2/64-ACM-2 T&NO #502-#503 (P-S, Lot #6515, Plan #7377, 1937), built with 50 seats each, transferred in 1954 to SP #2498-#2499, seating increased in 1959 to 54 each, sold in 1974 to Algoma Central as #452-#453, later (when??) resold to Doyle McCormack, located in Montana, damaged (when??) in runaway accident, acquired (when??) by Montana Rail Link as #102A-B.

Class 64-ACW-2/64-ACM-2 T&NO #504-#505 (P-S, Lot #6515, Plan #7377, 1937), built with 50 seats each, transferred in 1954 to SP #2456-#2455, seating increased in 1960 to 54 each, sold in 1973 to Amtrak as #7524-#7523, retired in 1977 and sold to California Western, later (when??) sold or leased? to Yreka Western, later (when??) resold to Grand Traverse Dinner Train, either as #100A-B or #300A-B, stored (when??) by the Central States Rail Associates on the Iowa Northern, operation became the Columbia Star Dinner Train in 2007, sold in 2015 to the Wisconsin Great Northern.

Class 66-ACM-1/66-ACW-1 SP #2445-#2446 (P-S, Lot #6594, Plans #7423-#7424, 1939), 46 seats each, retired in 1968 and sold to the Yreka Western (or was it sold to the California Western and then resold or leased to the Yreka Western?), in my notes I have it listed as one of two pairs used on the San Pedro & Southwestern RY (when?? to when??), current status/location unknown.

Class 66-ACM-2/66-ACW-2 SP #2463-#2464 (P-S, Lot #6638, Plans #7424A-#7423A, 1941), 46 seats each, sold in 1973 to Amtrak as #7528-#7529, retired in 1977 and sold to the Yreka Western (or was it sold to the California Western and then resold or leased to the Yreka Western?), later (when??) resold to Grand Traverse Dinner Train, either as #100A-B or #300A-B, stored (when??) by the Central States Rail Associates on the Iowa Northern, operation became the Columbia Star Dinner Train in 2007, sold in 2015 to the Wisconsin Great Northern.

Class 66-ACM-2/66-ACW-2 SP #2467-#2468 (P-S, Lot #6638, Plans #7424A-#7423A, 1941), 46 seats each, sold in 1973 to Amtrak as #7530-#7531, retired in 1977 and sold to the Yreka Western (or was it sold to the California Western and then resold or leased to the Yreka Western?; in my notes I have it as leased by Yreka to the Skunk Line), in my notes I have it listed as one of two pairs used on the San Pedro & Southwestern RY (when?? to when??), later (when??) acquired by the Pacific RR Society (PAR), listed as part of the "Pacific Railcar Museum", currently leased to? and located at the Orange Empire RY Museum.

Class 66-ACM-2/66-ACW-2 SP #2473-#2474 (P-S, Lot #6638, Plans #7424A-#7423A, 1941), built with 46 seats each, seating increased in 1968 to 50 each, sold in 1974 to Algoma Central as #458-#459, resold in 1988 to the Bytown RY Society, resold in 1996 to the Golden Gate RR Museum, currently located on the Niles Canyon RY; did the title actually pass from GGRM to PLA/Niles Canyon?

Is the seventh extant pair the one sold to the Boquet Movie Ranch?

Class 64-ACW-3/64-ACM-3 SP #2416-#2417 (P-S, Lot #6515, Plan #7377, 1937), built with 50 seats each, seating increased in 1960 to 54 each, sold in 1973 to Amtrak as #7521-#7522, retired in 1977 and sold to the Boquet Movie Ranch in Newhall, CA.

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Happy Easter!

_________________
Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific triple diners, and other articulated ca
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
Posts: 347
"The other SP cars Garrett owned were the:

[i]Shasta Daylight[/i] 48 seat leg rest chair #2352 (P-S, Lot #6940, Plan #7571B, 1954), sold in 1973 to Amtrak as #4840, retired in 1976 and sold to Garrett.

[i]Sunset Limited[/i] 44 seat leg rest chair #2375 (Budd, Lot #9613-140, 1954), sold in 1971 to Amtrak as #4438, retired in 1976 and sold to Garrett.

Economy baggage #6701 (Pacific Car & Foundry, 1962), to SPMW #6029, later retired and sold to Garrett.

[i]Sunset Limited[/i] 10RM-6DB sleeper #9008 (Budd, Lot #9660-040, Plan #9522, 1950), sold in 1971 to Amtrak as #2687, retired in 1976 and sold to Garrett.

[i]Sunset Limited[/i] 10RM-6DB sleeper #9010 (Budd, Lot #9660-040, Plan #9522, 1950), sold in 1971 to Amtrak as #2688, retired in 1975 and sold to Garrett.

[i]City of San Francisco[/i] 10RM-6DB sleeper #9044 (P-S, Lot #6874, Plan #4140C, 1950, blunt end installed in 1953 and Plan changed to #4140D), retired in 1968 and subsequently sold to Garrett, later resold to Henry Ketcher in North Little Rock, now owned by the Iowa RHS/Boone & Scenic Valley as #85 [b]City of San Francisco[/b], rebuilt sometime in the 1980's to a lounge observation with open platform.

[i]Sunset Limited[/i] 46 seat coffee shop (café)-diner #10408 (Budd, Lot #9609-040, 1950), reconfigured to a 36 seat hamburger grill diner-club (tavern) lounge in 1957, changed back to a 46 seat coffee shop (café)-diner in 1968, sold in 1971 to Amtrak as #8321, damaged in a wreck sometime in 1976 and sold to Garrett."



To my knowledge, Garrett never owned an SP Economy baggage car. If he did, it never made it out to the Ranch.

The Shasta coach, the Sunset coach, the Sunset POT diner lounge, and the Sunset 10-6 at the Ranch were all wreck damaged. Garrett sold the trucks, couplers, and other U/C equipment for scrap and moved just the carbodies to the Ranch, where they were all positioned with the "good" sides visible and the wrecked sides out of easy view. I believe all those cars were in a wreck of the Amtrak Inter-American circa 1975/76, not too far from Tyler, TX.

If he did really own 2 Sunset 10-6 sleepers, only one made it to the Ranch as far as I know. The other one must have been scrapped at the wreck site.

There is/was also a former CRI&P 85' lightweight baggage RPO at the Ranch, not wreck damaged but also less trucks and U/C equipment. It was built as a former NYC sleeper by PS in 1948.

The Sunset POT diner lounge was sold in 2015 to William Osborne and trucked out to join his collection of 4 other cars in Austin, TX.


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific triple diners, and other articulated ca
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:04 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Thanks, Topfuel, for the info!

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Happy Easter!

_________________
Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific triple diners, and other articulated ca
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:48 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:37 pm
Posts: 244
Location: Niles Canyon Railway, near Sunol, CA
Class 66-ACM-2/66-ACW-2 SP #2473-#2474 (P-S, Lot #6638, Plans #7424A-#7423A, 1941), built with 46 seats each, seating increased in 1968 to 50 each, sold in 1974 to Algoma Central as #458-#459, resold in 1988 to the Bytown RY Society, resold in 1996 to the Golden Gate RR Museum, currently located on the Niles Canyon RY; did the title actually pass from GGRM to PLA/Niles Canyon?

Answer from the PLA dba NCRy equipment roster:
http://www.ncry.org/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=541047&module_id=171865&actr=4

"...purchased by PLA from the GGRM March 2008.

Initial restoration work by the PLA at Brightside allowed the car to return to operational status on the Niles Canyon Railroad in November, 2008.

Since 2008 major restoration work on the car has continued. All of the seats have been reupholstered and the interior has had the many layers of paint removed. In 2011, the car was removed from active service and major repair of the roof was accomplished. This included adding new material at the roof line, fabricating new material around the A/C access covers and application of a 20 year roof coating. The exterior stainless steel was cleaned and the proper red stripe and lettering applied. The vestibules and car ends were painted in simulated stainless steel. In 2012 interior restoration continued with focus on the men’s and women’s restrooms and painting of the interior of one of the cars. The car returned to service for the 2012 Train of Lights."

The roof reinforcement was serious work. The roof-to-sidewall connection was heavily reinforced to correct corrosion damage.

Interior restoration has completely transformed a derelict car. The paint was peeling down in long strips, the seat cushions had hardened into crunchy yellow foam, the upholstery was worn out, dust everywhere, etc. Massive amounts of work inside and out now makes this car a showpiece on the Christmas Holiday season "Train of Lights". Passengers and visitors are amazed that this was how common folks traveled in the streamliner era - it is both classy and comfortable.

This year's upgrades include finishing the air conditioning modernization, so that the car can operate in the warmer months. Modernized restrooms (ultra-low-flow 0.8 gal/flush Niagara Conservation "Stealth" toilets, blackwater holding tanks, etc.) are next on the list.

- Doug Debs
Niles Canyon Railway volunteer


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific triple diners, and other articulated ca
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:33 pm
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SP 10408 is now at 9300 Highway 290 West Austin Texas where we are restoring to original appearance for coffee shop/lounge use. www.texascompound.com for project information.

Topfuel brokered for me the acquisition of four of the cars there, and a 5th car, ATSF 1371 "Nambe" now restored and leased to Austin Steam Train for excursion service.

- Wm Osborn


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Pacific triple diners, and other articulated ca
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:40 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Doug Debs 2472 wrote:
Answer from the PLA dba NCRy equipment roster:
http://www.ncry.org/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=541047&module_id=171865&actr=4

"...purchased by PLA from the GGRM March 2008.

Initial restoration work by the PLA at Brightside allowed the car to return to operational status on the Niles Canyon Railroad in November, 2008.


Thanks, Doug, for the info!

wosborn wrote:
SP 10408 is now at 9300 Highway 290 West Austin Texas where we are restoring to original appearance for coffee shop/lounge use. http://www.texascompound.com for project information.


Thanks, William, for the info!

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Ted Brumberg


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