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 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:57 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:21 am
Posts: 403
Later in the day today I was able to stop by the storage yard to photgraph the boxcar. I gave my contact info to the management, and told them that if there ever comes a day that the boxcar is in danger of being scrapped without any preservation plan, to contact me. They assured me that they would. I just want to have my toe in the door as a last effort if all else fails.

The big hulk of machinery is an "Upsetting Machine" that is a blacksmith/forging machine used to upset something. What caught my attention is I think it might exceed the weight limit on the 6-wheel L&N passenger car truck it is resting on.


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 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:24 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5573
Mark Jordan wrote:
Later in the day today I was able to stop by the storage yard to photgraph the boxcar. I gave my contact info to the management, and told them that if there ever comes a day that the boxcar is in danger of being scrapped without any preservation plan, to contact me. They assured me that they would. I just want to have my toe in the door as a last effort if all else fails.

The big hulk of machinery is an "Upsetting Machine" that is a blacksmith/forging machine used to upset something. What caught my attention is I think it might exceed the weight limit on the 6-wheel L&N passenger car truck it is resting on.


Mark -

Thanks for the photo of the NC&StL box car. This is the first photo I have seen of it. Although not the "yellow stripe" paint scheme I thought it might be, it is a very nice "steam era" scheme. I wonder if the car number, 20000, is the actual number of the car, or if they couldn't find the number when they did the restoration, and just assigned the class number for that series of car? The ends are also interesting, and unusual. I know model railroaders would know what kind of ends they are in a second, but I am just not that knowledgeable. Anyway, nice car. I assume that the trucks were hanging around somewhere. At least I hope so. And thanks also for speaking up for the car with Adkins Company management there so that it is not scrapped if the latest plans to save it and move it fall through.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:27 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:37 am
Posts: 54
Location: Lexington, KY
Just for the record, while I am still a member of BGRM, I have not been an active member for the past ten years.
To set the record straight, the N&W switcher that Boilerwash refered to on page one of this thread is actually a GP-9, which last I heard makes it a road unit that was used at a coal tipple for switching duties. It is not itself a switcher. That million dollar paint job? Well in actuality around $20,000 dollars was spent on the locomotive both internally and externally. Which means we are approximately $980,000 shy of the quoted million dollar mark. Is some rust now showing? Certainly. BGRM does not have a car barn so the loco sits outside 365 days a year. After a period of time of course some rust will begin to show. $20,000 doesn't buy you all new wiring so don't be suprised if on occasion you have to trouble shoot problems. On the whole she is a nice looking unit, was used in Kentucky and is an asset for her museum.


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 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:59 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Bill -

Wish we had a high nose GP-9 (or GP-7) at HVRM. I envy the boys at BGRM theirs.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2528
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
The 1935 build date is interesting. It's hard to tell with the car by itself and off its trucks, but it does kind of look like either a 1932 ARA design boxcar, of which the NC&STL had.

EDIT: As Les pointed our, modelers would know.

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun97a.pdf

It's a rebuild of a 36' wood sheathed car. The ends are called "Murphy Ends" which were made taller in the rebuild.

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 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:55 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
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Location: Northern Illinois
wilkinsd wrote:
The 1935 build date is interesting. It's hard to tell with the car by itself and off its trucks, but it does kind of look like either a 1932 ARA design boxcar, of which the NC&STL had.

EDIT: As Les pointed our, modelers would know.

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun97a.pdf

It's a rebuild of a 36' wood sheathed car. The ends are called "Murphy Ends" which were made taller in the rebuild.


These ends are of the pattern marketed by the Hutchins Car Roofing Co.; Murphy was a trade name used by the Standard Railway Equipment Co. on a lot of different products over the years.

I'm surprised at the 1935 built date. It's certainly in the right neighborhood for the rebuilding to a steel car, lots of roads did this during the thirties, but usually the built date had to reflect the age of the underframe. Perhaps in this case the center sills were replaced in the rebuilding.

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 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2528
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
I'm starting to think the 1935 date is suspect. I don't think the rebuild program started until 1938 for this class of car, which also makes me think the number may be conjecture as well.

The car's paint scheme, according to the people at Sunshine Models reflects the WWII era paint the car would have worn, without the hard-to-apply "To and From Dixieland" script above the reporting marks and the black background to the herald.

BTW, I understand that this car was cosmetically restored by the L&N's South Louisville Shops in the 1980s.

Still a neat car, hope it gets saved somewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:46 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
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Location: Northern Illinois
Just looked at the photo again... who says the built date is 1935? That's the SCALE date to the left of the door, and was updated every three or so years as the car needed its light weight updated. The built date should be just to the left of the dimensional data to the right of the door. I see two lines... some roads would show both the original built date and the date of rebuilding. Unfortunately, the photo is too low in resolution to be any help. Maybe Mark could look at the high res. image and report?

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 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:45 pm 

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 11:27 am
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Location: Switching the Coach Yard
According to the stenciling, the car was built 1-13 and rebuilt 8-39. The one truck sideframe that I can see a date on is dated 1929.


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 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:11 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2528
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
etalcos

Thanks for the clarification. I was trying to interpolate the low res imagine.

Those dates make much more sense, though I am curious as to whether this is really the "class car" or just was numbered in that series.

According to the ORER data, there were only 82 of these cars in service by 1960. I imagine their 36' length doomed them. It's rather amazing this sole car survived.

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 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5573
wilkinsd wrote:
etalcos

Thanks for the clarification. I was trying to interpolate the low res imagine.

Those dates make much more sense, though I am curious as to whether this is really the "class car" or just was numbered in that series.

According to the ORER data, there were only 82 of these cars in service by 1960. I imagine their 36' length doomed them. It's rather amazing this sole car survived.


David -

There were 1,231 cars in the series (20000-21230), so the odds that this is actually the "class car", would seem to be pretty low. And I wonder how hard the L&N's South Louisville Shops looked for the actual number when they did the restoration back in the 1980's? Since the guys in the Shop at not really rail preservationists, it was probably easier for them, just to stick the 20000 on the car and let it go at that. The main thing though, is that the car WAS saved, and that a cosmetic restoration was done at all. I know one thing for sure, she sure would look good in our museums "steam era" freight car collection and I envy the museum that she is going to.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Barring any major issues on the other side and end, she looks to be in good overall shape. It wouldn't take much work to make her look like new, and there are a variety of NC&StL paint schemes that would be appropriate for her.

I imagine wood to steel boxcar rebuilds are rare in preserved circles, and it gives a good opportunity to show how railroads rebuilt existing designs to increase their lifespan.

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 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:57 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:43 pm
Posts: 44
Just wanted to thank everyone for their postings. I am a member of KRM, though not active. I have always wondered about the rolling stock and locomotives of the KRM and what their long term plans are. Yes, it pains me too to see the sad condition the E-6 is in, as well as the old Republic Steel/L&N switcher. And I wonder as well why non-Kentucky, non-L&N stock appears while "Old Reliable" material is left to rot.


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 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:06 pm 

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 11:27 am
Posts: 446
Location: Switching the Coach Yard
As promised, I was able to confirm earlier that VLIX has acquired the boxcar and it is slated to be trucked to Oak Ridge, TN to join several other VLIX pieces there. Adkins has already been paid for the move and it should depart within the month.

I also think the number is suspect, but stranger things have happened. As far as the appearance goes sometimes weathered and worn makes for a more convincing photo prop.

etalcos


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 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:24 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5573
etalcos wrote:
As promised, I was able to confirm earlier that VLIX has acquired the boxcar and it is slated to be trucked to Oak Ridge, TN to join several other VLIX pieces there. Adkins has already been paid for the move and it should depart within the month.

I also think the number is suspect, but stranger things have happened. As far as the appearance goes sometimes weathered and worn makes for a more convincing photo prop.

etalcos


I'd look for the number somewhere on the inside of the car. This was stencilled there somewhere, usually near the door. Also might be on the underframe, but depending on how thorough the restoration was at South Louisville, it might have been painted over. There is also the light sanding where the number is located on the outside of the car under the reporting marks. but perhaps you wouldn't want to destroy what is currently there. Some roads also marked the car number on the trucks, but not sure if NC&StL did that or not. Also. the trucks may have been changed.

Glad to hear that the car is going to VLIX. Mr. Bowers should do a nice job of preserving the car for posterity, and if anyone would care about trying to find the actual car number, I think it would be him.

Les


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