It is currently Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:29 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 147 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:49 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:37 am
Posts: 54
Location: Lexington, KY
OK, for the ignorant among us VLIX is....?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:59 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5621
Bill Dennehy wrote:
OK, for the ignorant among us VLIX is....?


Bill - Vintage Locomotives Inc.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:43 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5621
wilkinsd wrote:
Staring in 1942 or so, the L&N began naming their heavyweight diners as they came in for shopping. Not all of the heavyweight diners were named, and there appears to be no rhyme or reason as to which ones were named. The names chosen were famous and old hotels/taverns in the region traveled by the L&N. (Fun fact, the diners received their names when wearing the pre-war green scheme)

At one point, there was an article-a-month in the L&N employees magazine about these, but they stopped, and the diner renaming continued. My guess is that news about the war trumped such stories. I used to have scans out of the L&N magazines of the histories of the Galt House and Phostelwait's Tavern, but that was 4 computers and 2 hard drive crashes ago.

Phostelwait's Tavern was an old tavern in the Lexington area.
Cross Keys Tavern (At the Indiana Transportation Museum) was located in the same region
Galt House (At IRM) was a famous hotel in Louisville, presently in its third incarnation)
Duncan Tavern (At BGRM) another historic tavern in the Lexington area.

The more "fun" names were reserved for the post-war streamlined diners built for the Hummingbird/Georgian and other trains (Fiesta Inn, Duncan Hines, Dixie Traveler)

I don't have a listing of all of them, but I believe there was a Globe Coffee House, a St. Louis Hotel, and others.

The C&O also had a diner named Phostelwait's Tavern, I beleive it was a twin unit 1950 PS product.


David -

Got a couple of photos from Dean Levin of another surviving L&N heavyweight diner. This one is at the depot museum in Milton, Florida and when I saw the cars name (Globe Coffee House) I recalled your comments above. So this car (L&N #2722) makes a total of 5 L&N heavyweight diners still extant, with only the number of the car at KRM unreported.

Hopefully Dean will post his latest photos here on RyPN.

Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:03 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:22 pm
Posts: 429
Les and the forum...

Here are a few pictures of the L&N diner in Milton Florida... Car appeared to be in CSX M&W service, like the other heavyweights that are on the property in Milton. Overall, the group there has a done a very nice job with maintaining the old L&N depot, and have a few attractive displays of equipment.

Anyway, as Les mentioned, here are a few photographs of the "Globe Coffee House"


Dean Levin


Attachments:
GLOBE1.jpg
GLOBE1.jpg [ 43.95 KiB | Viewed 4655 times ]
GLOBE2.jpg
GLOBE2.jpg [ 39.12 KiB | Viewed 4655 times ]
GLOBE3.jpg
GLOBE3.jpg [ 40.53 KiB | Viewed 4655 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:05 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:22 pm
Posts: 429
a few more photographs.. If anyone has an interest in the other equipment in Milton, I will post... Just let me know...


Dean


Attachments:
GLOBE4.jpg
GLOBE4.jpg [ 23.02 KiB | Viewed 4654 times ]
GLOBE5.jpg
GLOBE5.jpg [ 35.63 KiB | Viewed 4654 times ]
GLOBE6.jpg
GLOBE6.jpg [ 41.47 KiB | Viewed 4654 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:09 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2528
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Les,

By my last count, there are at least 7 heavyweight L&N diners in existence, in one condition or another. They are:

-Duncan Tavern at Bluegrass Railroad Museum;
-Postelwait's Tavern at Kentucky Railway Museum;
-Galt House at Illinois Railway Museum;
-Globe Coffee House at the L&N Depot in Milton, FL;
-Cross Keys Tavern at Indiana Transportation Museum
-"Strike the Gold" (Not the L&N Name) used as sort of a PV by Bobby Jones of Louisville Scrap Metals; and
-The group in Florida had another, unnamed L&N diner. Perhaps Mr. Levin has photos of it.

Of the 7 extant heavyweight L&N diners, only 2 are in a condition they were in when retired. the other 5 went into MOW service and received varying degrees of gutting and modification. Interestingly enough, both Cross Keys Tavern and Galt House were modernized by the L&N in the 1950s with an all electric kitchen, and they stayed in service until Amtrak Day. On the other hand Globe Coffee House and the car at KRM did not have this done, and probably went into MOW service in the 1960s. The modernization of the 2 intact cars is probably why they survived long enough to make it intact into museums (The car at IRM was a diner in Richmond, KY for a while, but stayed intact; the car at ITM was purchased from the L&N by the museum or a museum member).

_________________
--
David M. Wilkins
<Insert Impressive-Sounding Job Title Here>
<Insert Impressive-Sounding Organization Here>

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:23 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:22 pm
Posts: 429
David, Les and the group..

here are a few pictures of the L&N 2715, the other L&N diner located in Milton Florida... It was believed that this car was used on the Corbin KY wreck train at one point.. before being sold by CSX to the museum in Milton... I don't have any records of what the original name of this car was... perhaps someone in the forum knows the original name of this car....

thanks


Dean Levin


Attachments:
2715A.jpg
2715A.jpg [ 44.56 KiB | Viewed 4590 times ]
2715B.jpg
2715B.jpg [ 38.42 KiB | Viewed 4590 times ]
2715C.jpg
2715C.jpg [ 33.17 KiB | Viewed 4590 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2528
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Dean,

Not all L&N heavyweight diners were named. They were named in 1941-1942 as they went in for shopping. I think about 10 of the roughly 30 L&N heavyweight diners were named. The names are haphazardly spread throughout the series. My guess is that the other diner wasn't named.

The Globe Coffee House looks like it has it's original dining room tables intact, or they are very good reproductions. The bulkhead in the photo was added by the group that owns the museum.

_________________
--
David M. Wilkins
<Insert Impressive-Sounding Job Title Here>
<Insert Impressive-Sounding Organization Here>

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:44 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:35 pm
Posts: 338
Location: NJ
There is a new ad on railswap showing several engines at the KRM are up for sale.

_________________
cv the civil E in NJ


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:56 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2528
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
The ad lists the locomotives as "running when parked" which is misleading to the buyer for the reasons stated below:

1. MRS-1 from a coal company in Western Kentucky. When it arrived at KRM anti freeze was found in the oil. It hasn't run since.

2. Alco S-1, was diagnosed with a bearing problem in the prime mover. Hasn't run in 10+ years.

3. FM Switcher. USA 1846. Truck removed for failed conversion to roller bearing. It ran, but is a "kit."

4. GE 45 ton switchers, numbered 76 and 77. These came from the Naval Ordinance Plant in Louisville. One was somewhat operational, the other was not.

Last month, the KRM board called an emergency membership meeting. I wasn't able to attend, but did learn of what transpired from a trusted source. The Board of Directors stated that the museum was in "great danger" and asked the membership to approve a suspension of the bylaws without going into detail what the danger was, or what the board intended to do about it. With the exception of one lone "no" vote and some abstentions, the measure passed. In other words, the same people that put KRM into the shape it is now, as evidenced in Mr. Levin's photographs, now have unfettered control over the place. They've been on a scrapping spree as well recently, without offering the scrapped equipment for sale or gift to another museum. Then again, what is left of the membership approved it, so they in a way get what they deserve.

My theory is that the hometown bank that holds KRM's debt is not as friendly as it used to be. The bank was bit hard by the mortgage crisis and is operating under an agreement with the FDIC.

About the same time this special, emergency membership meeting was called, I got an issue of the newsletter in the mail. There was no mention of financials, or any impending crisis.

What is happening is a good example of how not to run your museum or grow the membership. When your very existence depends on Thomas and TEA-21 grants, with very little long-term planning or fundraising, this is where you end up. Expecting rich people to donate, without a concrete plan, or a track record of success is a poor way to run a non-profit. Failure to develop the membership, evaluate your collection, and placing too much control in a few hands will not end well.

_________________
--
David M. Wilkins
<Insert Impressive-Sounding Job Title Here>
<Insert Impressive-Sounding Organization Here>

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:02 am
Posts: 620
Location: Albany, Georgia
Interesting RailSwap ad. Didn't find any mention of thr items for sale on their web site, either. I hope the 665 combine is not in more danger.

_________________
Stephen S. Syfrett
Albany, GA


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:01 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:22 pm
Posts: 429
Thought a few people might want to see a few current pictures of perhaps some of the equipment in question... perhaps David can verify, as I am speculating a bit based upon the sale list and what is on the property... ( so don't hold me to it ) ... in the end, the overall impression of KRM, is a place that perhaps seems to have questionable priorities, as you can easily select historic diesels, freight cars, passenger cars, M&W cars and the like all showing signs of heavy neglect.. With the exception of perhaps a handful of select pieces, such as the Monon BL2, a Soo wide vision caboose, and a few other pieces, things seem to have a overall neglected look. Not being in the know, I could almost speculate that the L&N 152 seems to be their greatest concern, everything else, looks to be secondary ( but again, I just stopped in for an hour ) ... perhaps David can offer more from their most recent newsletter


Dean Levin


Attachments:
FMC.jpg
FMC.jpg [ 35.07 KiB | Viewed 4352 times ]
FMB.jpg
FMB.jpg [ 41.04 KiB | Viewed 4352 times ]
FMA.jpg
FMA.jpg [ 40.97 KiB | Viewed 4352 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2528
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Dean and all,

The KRM newsletter provides no information useful to this discussion. According to it, everything is hunky dory.

I have no idea what the priorities of KRM are. L&N 152 was a big focus for a long time, but now that it needs a new 1472 day inspection, and significant running gear work, I doubt she will be operational for quite some time. The museum knew that day was coming for a long, long time, but did not engage in fundraising, etc for the cubic yards of money that will be required.

Speaking of misplaced priorities, the Soo caboose. It isn't even owned by KRM, but rather a group based in St. Louis that goes by the name "The American Caboose Historical Society" or something like that. KRM did all of the work on the car, while several KRM owned steel and one wood cabooses rot on the property.

Why would you give money, either as a private individual or a private foundation to this group? If they cannot demonstrate that they would use your money in a responsible manner, have a long range plan, and a track record of results, then there is no reason to expect donations of a significant amount. Long after most other museums realized that building covered storage was important, establishing a long term plan, and thinking about things such as endowments, KRM literally rots into the ground.

My parents live less than 15 miles from KRM. I was home last weekend, but didn't venture down to KRM. It is too personally depressing to go.

_________________
--
David M. Wilkins
<Insert Impressive-Sounding Job Title Here>
<Insert Impressive-Sounding Organization Here>

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:31 am 

Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:40 am
Posts: 119
Not really trying to bash KRM in a public forum but they have been offered some help with a project or two and would be made a cash offer for a thing or two if they would sell anything that was not a complete falling down around itself mess.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NC&StL box car/Flying Duchess 0-6-0T from England/KRM
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2528
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
I found these listings quite by accident on eBay. It appears that KRM could be desperately trying to raise cash.

It appears that KRM might be hard up for cash and is trying to liquidate as many assets as possible. A seller on eBay claims to be selling items for KRM, including builders plate. He is requesting that the items be picked up at the museum. The 152 number plate is a reproduction, one of many made in the 1970s. The M-1 classification plate was donated to KRM from the Jack Fravert collection. The M-1s were the 2-8-4s built by Baldwin and Lima. These plates went on the sides of the cabs. I am sure Fravert's heirs are happy that the museum is selling items donated to it:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/trainbuffs152/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3686

_________________
--
David M. Wilkins
<Insert Impressive-Sounding Job Title Here>
<Insert Impressive-Sounding Organization Here>

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"


Last edited by wilkinsd on Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 147 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 42 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: