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 Post subject: B&O Follow - Up for the Flying Scottsman
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 1998 4:37 am 

Hi,<p>We were getting pinched out on the last thread, which we changes pretty much anyway, so let's start anew.<p>Previous quotes from Mr. Scottsman are in the brackets. I am not part of the B&O Museum, but I have had serious contact with them lately.<p><p><br>The museum is making every effort to improve its standing via traditional and non-traditional menthids. The Smithsonian announcement is a help. As you know, outside of the rr world, museums seek all accredidations to help fund raising efforts.<p>You will also note that B&0 #25 was restored for the move "Wild, WIld West" in a nice package funded by the movie company. It allowed the opportunity to seriously evalutate the locomotive. One thign learned? There is a lot more of the 1852 engine than originally thought. Surely this is a sign of progressive thinking? They got the money, put it into a worthy piece which hadn't run since 1962 and they had significant learning and wound up with a remarkable, operable draw. Were you there for the steam up in April? I was. It was packed with visitors, many who weren't buffs. That's golden.<p><p>Of course, better E-8's and other E-8's may not be B&O E-8's. You have to respect that the management is focusing on B&O artifacts, which are not in unlimited supply. Unless I have this wrong, the E-8 was part of a trade that deaccesioned some locomotives to acquire it and the GP-9 which is restored and operating. SOmeone may have more deatils. I don't have my transaction record with me now.<p>I am sure that you will agree the E-8 is not as high a priority as the EA. The EA is in the shop and is "on deck" for much needed work. The E-8 will wait, but waiting is better than already being scrapped.<p>You will also note that current management is not the same as the team that put the EA outside. Remember this team as the one that brought it back inside.<p>Kudos to them.<p><p>Not sure, but what's the worry? If the space is there now, use it. If you lose it, adapt. I do not know their plans, but I am grateful for what they have saved off-site. It is a lose-lose. No museum of their scope can everything pretty all the time. People cry becasue the Montreal museums' boneyard is (was) visible. Steamtown hides their oldies at Tobyhanna. Sacramento has hidden storage, too. It is the way of the world. B&O is doing nothing wrong there.<p><p>The speed of transaction at all big museums seems to be based on need (or threat of scrapping). Look, I think St. Louis should send the DL&W camelback to Steamtown... no doubt. It is out of place. The T-1 is not that out of place given that the engine belong to a B&O controlled road and was part of the CSX steam program (which as we move forward gains historical merit).<p>If what you say is true, can you blame them. If an operable T-1 was worth $200,000 last year, what is an inoperable one worth?<p>The RR Museum of Pa does a pretty good job with their collection. I am sure both parties have goals to meet. Maybe time will make it happen, maybe it won't.<p>In the meantime, none of the pieces are out of place where they are, right?<p>If all this is true and the PA cars are rusting away, that is not the B&O Museum's fault. Why shoudl they agree to deal they don't like? Why make them the bad guy for what rusts at Strasburg? <p>There has been a lot of interest in putting #2101 back in PA at numerous places. Maybe other offers are better? Maybe no one has made the best one yet.<p>If it were up to me, I would send it to the Reading museum to be built in S. Haven. That's really home turf, more than Strasburg or Balitmore... though she did spend a long time in Baltimore in the scrap yard. ;-)<p><p>Add these up:<br>Active restoration in progress. <br>Meaningful site plan.<br>Active acquisition program beased upon set goals.<br>Creative financing (B&0 #25 as an example).<br>Operating trains.<br>More creative financing (wedding/event roundhouse rentals).<br>Experienced core management team.<br>Insulation from "railfan" museum logic.<p><br>Do I have to go on? The B&O Museum has had ups and downs. They are on a solid track up right now.<p>Rob<p><p><br><br>


  
 
 Post subject: This time with bracketsRe: B&O Follow - Up for the F
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 1998 4:40 am 

Hi,<p>We were getting pinched out on the last thread, which we changes pretty much anyway, so let's start anew.<p>Previous quotes from Mr. Scottsman are in the (())brackets. I am not part of the B&O Museum, but I have had serious contact with them lately.<p>((Does the Museum's endowment adequately protect the resources and artifacts that are entrusted to it? If not, what actions are they taking to increase that<br>endowment for long-term survival?))<p>The museum is making every effort to improve its standing via traditional and non-traditional menthids. The Smithsonian announcement is a help. As you<br>know, outside of the rr world, museums seek all accredidations to help fund raising efforts.<p>You will also note that B&0 #25 was restored for the movie "Wild, WIld West" in a nice package funded by the movie company. It allowed the opportunity<br>to seriously evalutate the locomotive. One thign learned? There is a lot more of the 1852 engine than originally thought. Surely this is a sign of progressive<br>thinking? They got the money, put it into a worthy piece which hadn't run since 1962 and they had significant learning and wound up with a remarkable,<br>operable draw. Were you there for the steam up in April? I was. It was packed with visitors, many who weren't buffs. That's golden.<p>((Would the monies attracted to repair and restore the "rustbucket" B&O E8 not be donated to another E8 project OR another B&O locomotive/car/station?<br>Unless that is the case, said money would only cannibalize money to be spent elsewhere on worthier B&O locos (EA 51? The steamers? The SD35?) or<br>better E8s (almost ANY other E8).))<p><br>Of course, better E-8's and other E-8's may not be B&O E-8's. You have to respect that the management is focusing on B&O artifacts, which are not in<br>unlimited supply. Unless I have this wrong, the E-8 was part of a trade that deaccesioned some locomotives to acquire it and the GP-9 which is restored<br>and operating. Someone may have more deatils. I don't have my transaction record with me now.<p>I am sure that you will agree the E-8 is not as high a priority as the EA. The EA is in the shop and is "on deck" for much needed work. The E-8 will wait,<br>but waiting is better than already being scrapped.<p>You will also note that current management is not the same as the team that put the EA outside. Remember this team as the one that brought it back inside.<p>Kudos to them.<p>((Is the room they "have" to store off-site dependent upon a benevolent corporation that can change their minds any day, or is it costing them money better<br>used elsewhere, or do they now have resources (storage space) that they own outright?))<p><p>Not sure, but what's the worry? If the space is there now, use it. If you lose it, adapt. I do not know their plans, but I am grateful for what they have saved<br>off-site. It is a lose-lose. No museum of their scope can everything pretty all the time. People cry becasue the Montreal museums' boneyard is (was) visible.<br>Steamtown hides their oldies at Tobyhanna. Sacramento has hidden storage, too. It is the way of the world. B&O is doing nothing wrong there.<p><p>((How long does it take them to deaccession or trade stuff, and by what standards? Supposedly there have been talks between B&O and RR Museum of Pa.<br>for years regarding 2101; if I am to believe my RR M. of Pa. sources, B&O is holding out for the WM business car, the rustbucket B&O RPO, and<br>another piece in trade for 2101. The damn things are rusting away, and they're arguing the "Blue Book" values, to oversimplify the purported negotiations.<br>There is no room in proper historical preservation for this nonsense.))<p><br>The speed of transactions at all big museums seems to be based on need (or threat of scrapping). Look, I think St. Louis should send the DL&W camelback<br>to Steamtown... no doubt. It is out of place. The T-1 is not that out of place given that the engine belong to a B&O controlled road and was part of the<br>CSX steam program (which as we move forward gains historical merit).<p>If what you say is true, can you blame them? If an operable T-1 was worth $200,000 last year, what is an inoperable one worth?<p>The RR Museum of Pa does a pretty good job with their collection. I am sure both parties have goals to meet. Maybe time will make it happen, maybe it<br>won't.<p>In the meantime, none of the pieces are out of place where they are, right?<p>If all this is true and the PA cars are rusting away, that is not the B&O Museum's fault. Why shoudl they agree to deal they don't like? Why make them the<br>bad guy for what rusts at Strasburg? <p>There has been a lot of interest in putting #2101 back in PA at numerous places. Maybe other offers are better? Maybe no one has made the best one yet.<p>If it were up to me, I would send it to the Reading museum to be built in S. Haven. That's really home turf, more than Strasburg or Balitmore... though she<br>did spend a long time in Baltimore in the scrap yard. ;-)<p>((Please give examples of "solid management" as you define it.))<p><br>Add these up:<br>Active restoration in progress. <br>Meaningful site plan.<br>Active acquisition program beased upon set goals.<br>Creative financing (B&0 #25 as an example).<br>Operating trains.<br>More creative financing (wedding/event roundhouse rentals).<br>Experienced core management team.<br>Insulation from "railfan" museum logic.<p><br>Do I have to go on? The B&O Museum has had ups and downs. They are on a solid track up right now.<p>Rob<p><br>


  
 
 Post subject: The B&O Railroad Museum - My Turn
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 1998 6:10 am 

First of all, in the interests of full disclosure, I have been a volunteer docent at the B&O Railroad Museum since March, 1995. I have seen equipment come and go, and I have heard some of the rationale behind it.<p>The mission of the B&O Railroad Museum, is to preserve artifacts of the B&O, C&O, and WM Railways, as well as other railroads that operated in Maryland, and to tell the story of American railroad history utilizing its location as the cradle of American railroading to do so.<p>Pursuant to that goal, it traded PRR GG-1 #4890 to the National Railway Museum in Green Bay for an ex-MILW H12-44. The B&O operated H12-44's, but none survive. <p>As for the E units, in 1995 and 1996, the B&O Museum acquired two E's, E8 #92, which arrived mechanically intact, and the shell of E9 #36, which we obtained sans prime movers or traction motors. This is the one that is stored off the property. #92 is currently in the carshop coupled to the rear of EA #51. Certainly, #51, as the first E unit ever built is more historically significant that an E8 or E9. However, we kept both units off the scrap line, and are building additional tracks on which the managment may or may not choose to store equipment. As an avid fan of E units, who is sickened by the recent demise of UP #928, I can only applaud the management of the museum for grabbing these units while they were available.<p>Furthermore, I think the museum must be commended for its restoration program. From just one SW-1 (PM #11), the operating roster has expanded to B&O SW-9 #633, B&O GP-7 #5605, WM F-7 #236 (currently being worked on), B&O passenger GP-9 #6607 (authentically restored in B&O 1050's passenger colors), GP-30 #6944, and SD-35 #7402. All of the above, except for the GP-30 arrived unserviceable, and were put back in operation by the museum's shop forces (mostly volunteer). <p>We have a highly dedicated group of volunteers, and I hope "Flying Scotsman" will return to the fold. We could all use his help.<p>The management has been solititing corporate sponsorships to augment the original CSX endowment, which by itself is insufficient to cover the operating expenses. I would suggest patronizing their corporate sponsors whenever possible, and letting them know why. For example, I use Crown gasoline whenever possible, since Crown Central has been a very generous supporter of the museum.<p>Yes, there are things I would change. I would trade Clinchfield #1 to Spencer to get the former WM Baldwin switcher currently displayed there in Seaboard Air Line colors. The Board of Directors, according to my understanding will not allow the deaccession of a single steam locomotive. I would also turn the Maryland and Pennsylvania baggage RPO around to better display the RPO side of the car. However, I get a great deal of personal satisfaction out of the work I do there, and I would never consider giving up working there because of a disagreement over some policy issues. I have no knowledge of the negotiations with the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania about a possible trade of RDG #2101 for the WM office car and the B&O RPO, so I shall not comment further.<br>



kevingillespie@usa.net


  
 
 Post subject: Re: The B&O Railroad Museum - My Turn
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 1998 2:53 pm 

I want to wade in later with a more thoughtful reply, but I'm a little too worn out and addle-brained from having just returned from a trip to New Orleans (spent the better part of two days exploring the St. Charles streetcar, the Riverfront line, and learning about plans for the Canal Street line-- more soon!)<p>I do want to note, however, that the B&O Museum publishes a wonderful little document which they sell in the gift shop, and give away as a member benefit: the complete Museum "Roster of Rolling Stock." This handy spiral bound reference lists every single rolling stock artifact the Museum has owned since its beginning as an independent organization in 1989. In tabular form, it lists everything by roster number, builder, construction date, museum accession number, and also includes thumbnail notes on the history of the piece, it's significance if any, and its authority for classification in the collection.<p>This list also includes each and every deaccessioned artifact.<p>Two points from this: one, this is a wonderful document which gives great insight into the Museum's curatorial policy, making it of interest to museum administrators as well as buffs; it would be a fine thing for others to emulate. Production costs are nearly nothing, since it's really nothing more than a xerox of a table the Museum keeps as part of its collections management anyway.<p>Second, the museum has deaccessioned 43 separate pieces of rolling stock (locomotives, cars and MOW equipment) in a little over 11 years. While progress is perhaps not what everyone would like, and not all negotiations bear immediate fruit, the Museum really is committed to pruning its collection to focus on pieces which meet the curatorial and interpretive rationale which Kevin ably describes, and which I discussed in the 'First Mile" article here at RyPN.<br>



eledbetter@rypn.org


  
 
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