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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:07 am
Posts: 804
Location: Leicester, MA.
EDM wrote:
I don't think there is a flaw in the article. In one place it mentions a 1946 steam locomotive; the last paragraph reproduced clearly states that the locomotive IS in New Hope. 3028 just happens to be the only 1946 steamer at New Hope, so we're talking one and the same.

I would be surprised if NH&I has given up on 3028, though. Having a second steamer would give 40 a break, and 1533 looks like it needs far more work that 3028. Despite it's wheel arrangement, 3028 isn't really that large a locomotive, being built for service on secondary lines, a 'vest pocket' 4-8-4 if you will. And remember, 614 made a few break-in trips at New Hope, before running excursions on NJ Transit.

I agree, you will see the electric from Colonie trucked to Schenectady LONG before 3028 leaves New Hope, if ever.

Well, looks like part of my own assessment was flawed! Ms. Dutton wouldn't be very pleased. A "bad synapse" is what she would call it. But, fact is that it is in planning. Having had my own share of failures in my short lifetime, and tom quote the myth busters, failure is always an option.

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:54 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:41 am
Posts: 2200
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
For comparison, specifications of several light 4-8-4s:

Nacional de Mexico's QR-1:

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/northern/?page=ndem

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1567216

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1897820

Toledo Peoria & Western's H-10:

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/northern/?page=tpw

Photos courtesy of RLSteam, from the original RyPN thread, "4-8-4 Question: What Made Them "Great" Locomotives?"

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/tpw/tpw-s85g.jpg

http://www.forecyte.com/images/tpw_484_keokuk.jpg

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31323

Temiskaming & Northern Ontario (Ontario Northland after 1946), 1100 class:

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/northern/?page=tno

Sorry, couldn't find any photos of the T&NO/ON 4-8-4s.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:16 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:20 am
Posts: 195
David Notarius wrote:
Hi Guys;
This is from a recent Railpace article, back to you Ross! Also see http://ahts.org/.
Have fun - Dave


The newspaper info is not up to date....The 2 electrics are going to the Berkshire Ry Museum and Mexican "paperweight' Is many many years away from being moved as someone else mentioned.
The ALCO Museum is in no position to acquire anything at this point unless someone else pays for it....That being said, they have no money.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:26 pm 
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Location: San Diego, Ca
Under steam and looking good.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:06 pm
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Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Sammy, while I would certainly defer to you on matters concerning steam power south of the border, when I saw 3028, it had a dome throttle and a multiple feed hydrostatic lubricator. And looking at some pics on-line of the displayed NdeM 4-8-4s, I do not see any mechanical lubricators.

They are pretty nice engines, very classic and clean-lined, and certainly of a size that would do well on 100-lb rail, such as might be found on some Northeastern US heritage railways...

I suspect that none of the examples still languishing in Mexico would ever be able to venture to new homes in the US.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:43 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:49 am
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Location: Cambridgeshire UK
Hi Guys, Well, after stirring up proverbial the hornets nest, I would like to know, just slightly off subject, what is the status - locations - conditions of the remaining NdeM / Mexican 4-8-4's? Besides the museum locomotives, I believe there is still a few in storage in a scrapyard in Mexico City, and one was kept up until recently in steam for use as a stationary boiler on the NdeM. Also, is the Mexican 4-8-4's design based on the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis J3 class "Dixies" 4-8-4. Anyway, I did get an off the interchange post asking me why I was anti Mexican steam on the NH&I. I am not, and I would love to see the 3028 double heading with the 40. Ever better the 40 & 3028 meeting the 1533 at Buckingham ( yes, I know; steam = deep pockets x time)! I just wanted to get the straight news. Have fun everyone – David Notarius, London UK (ex New Hope Pa)


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:48 am
Posts: 164
Location: Byers, Colorado
Since I've seen several other folks good naturedly admit to making mistakes in this thread, Howard, I'll admit for the second time that I put my foot in my mouth with the bit about the front end throttle. A gentleman named Mr. Baldwin Feeder caught it immediately, but replying to him gave me a good chance to slip in a bit of folklore.

Anyway, I must defer to facts, and the bit about the mechanical lubricators is harder for me to pin down right now. Certainly the hydrostatic lubricators were retained as you point out, but as the engines were modernized (not much I admit) cross compound air pumps were added, and I THINK mechanical oilers on at least some engines for these pumps. In a couple cases I can clearly see oil cups and copper lines on the air pumps, but many more fotos are ambiguous. Overall NdeM and FIdeCA, etc liked hydrostatics because there was nothing to break, you could see how much oil you were feeding while you were going down the track, and we never had to worry about freeze damage.

Mr Notorius, Please take comfort in the fact that the nice people you meet online will outnumber the others. For what it's worth, I only picked up on a positive interest in the NdeM Niagaras from you and the other contributers here. You can be sure that I am not only sensitive to a fault to any kind of anti Latin bias or racism, prejudice, etc, but that I am willing to point it out in cases that I feel actually justify my doing so. I don't think this is it, and I hope that anybody who has accused you unfairly will focus their energies and good intentions on more egregious violations of human decency !!! I was glad you started this thread, and I am enjoying the nice pictures and the interest being shown in the NdeM 3028.

As for speculation that the design specificly was patterned after similar smaller 4-8-4s, I really can't say because I wasn't there, and never talked to anybody who was. But for my 2 centavos worth, those NdeM engines sure look an awful lot like the Grand Trunk U3c types, except for the vestibule cab and Vanderbilt tender. While the overall similarity is striking from a distance, when I compared the two classes with the idea of making myself a model NdeM Niagara to play with, there are many subtle external differences.

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:50 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:52 am
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Location: Strasburg, PA
OK, I know nothing about this engine, having never even seen her in person, but now I’m curious. If she has a dome throttle, why does she also have the access hatch at the top rear end of the smokebox, which is traditionally there to service the seats of a front end throttle?

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:41 am
Posts: 2200
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
One modern touch they do seem to have is roller bearings, visible here on the trailing truck:

http://www.mexlist.com/photo/ruelas1/1.htm

Question is, which other axles had them? The do not appear to be on the tender, at least in this example:

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/northern/ndem3034-2.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:55 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:29 am
Posts: 56
Location: California
The hatch on the smokebox is too small for a typical front end throttle and the pictures in an earlier post of the right hand side show there is no linkage...

However, as it was stated that the engines were superheated, there is probably a smaller header in the smokebox and the access hatch that is there is likely so that can be accessed...

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status? My Recent Video
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:17 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:37 pm
Posts: 162
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Got to see NdeM 3028 on my vacation while attending the 2014 TCA Convention.

Nacionales de México 3028 (Locomotive Tour), 06-27-2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgorVKLn5_U

Enjoy! ^_^

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:24 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:03 pm
Posts: 64
Location: Pennsylvania
Really not much has happened to 3028 proper in the last year or two other then being reconnected to her tender (albeit by chains). A lot of her parts (air compressors, cab, smokebox cover hatch, petticoat pipe and flue sheets to name a few) have been moved to one area behind the New Hope enginehouse during resent back lot housekeeping. Personally I don't really think this means anything other then the shop forces wanting to be a little more organized and to get things out of the way as a great deal of her parts are still scattered throughout the property (smokebox cover is still resting between two of the truckless boxcars and her domes and mainrods are sitting atop one of them) though I am told that everything from her is accounted for.

The last thing I heard about her though was that she is now owned by the ALCO technical and historical society with long term plans of returning her to Schenectady for display.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:53 pm 

Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 7:56 pm
Posts: 40
Location: New York
o484 wrote:
The last thing I heard about her though was that she is now owned by the ALCO technical and historical society with long term plans of returning her to Schenectady for display.


Interesting, that's news to me. I always thought the engine was intended to be the back-up NH&I locomotive when #40 has to eventually go for her 1472 day overhaul.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:26 pm
Posts: 13
Kelly Anderson wrote:
OK, I know nothing about this engine, having never even seen her in person, but now I’m curious. If she has a dome throttle, why does she also have the access hatch at the top rear end of the smokebox, which is traditionally there to service the seats of a front end throttle?

Kelly, someone said it has Type E super heaters. The Type E's I've seen actually have their bolts upside down compared to most others, so the nuts have to be turned from above, which would be the other reason for the access hatch.

Scott Gordon
Friends of the 4449


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:40 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:23 am
Posts: 70
Location: Sheboygan County, Wisconsin
Frisco 1522 posted a comment some time back regarding this class of locomotive being possibly used on the Grand Canyon Ry.

Several were actually considered at the outset of GCR operations around 1989. The eventual reality of getting anything out of Mexico had a lot to do with that never coming to fruition. I still have a 1970 letter from the NdeM stating that they could no longer honor the agreement that we had for me to purchase a whistle and bell from them at something around $108.00 US. I did get my money back and so did a friend who had 5 figures already across the border for one of the QR-1s. His money was recovered also.

I agree with Frisco 1522 as to them being a good fit for the GCR. While there are locomotives around with greater pulling power, the 70" drivers and apparent availability of several of the class would have been an attractive enticement.

It was fun to sit in the shop while on dinner break when I worked there to muse about what might have been a really good puller for the line...believe it or not, one of the C&O Alleghennys was even discussed. So was the B&LE 2-10-4 643. So much so that early company logos used her image for some time.


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