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 Post subject: Re: GG-1 4876
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:14 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4642
Location: Maine
Having read the story and viewing the photos, I can see the reasoning behind declaring her a total loss. Thought: Save a large section, say a quarter of the nose, repair it for static display as it was on the morning of her near fatal collision. Part out the rest of the GG1 for repairing others, auction off the remaining bits of salvage to support the B&O Museum. I'm certain there are plenty of collectors who would gladly bid on something from her cab, headlights, markers, journal covers.

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 Post subject: Re: GG-1 4876
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:08 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Richard Glueck wrote:
I'm certain there are plenty of collectors who would gladly bid on something from her cab, headlights, markers, journal covers.


You speak as if any of this detritus is even left to salvage. <:-/

I personally pulled a lot of parts out of the cabs of GG1's on the scrap lines in Wilmington with the aim of letting them be used for cab restorations of other G's. I think to this day, only one G has had a cab opened to the public (4800); one boxload of ammeters, speedometers, cab signals, etc. is probably still sitting somewhere in 4859's shell decades later.....

Further, I don't really want to "enable" more of the "pack rat" PRR collectors out there, much as such a sale MIGHT benefit the B&O Museum (in reality, it may pay for a small part of the gas used for the cutting torches).


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 Post subject: Re: GG-1 4876
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:47 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
If you parted it down the center and shared it with the Smithsonian, you could each perhaps find track space for a GG 1/2. Paint the wall it butts up against like a tunnel portal........

dave

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 Post subject: Re: GG-1 4876
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:51 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
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Location: Thomaston & White Plains
"If you parted it down the center and shared it with the Smithsonian, you could each perhaps find track space for a GG 1/2. Paint the wall it butts up against like a tunnel portal........ "

Now THAT is a cool idea! Or, section one, like "Clan Line" in York, or the 0-6-0 in Scranton.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: GG-1 4876
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:46 pm 

Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 7:42 pm
Posts: 148
Location: Newark, Delaware
But doesn't sectioning, cutting one in half still require you to restore the GG1? It would actually wind up costing more! If you section it, you have to restore the entire interior.

The article about the crash is well written, perhaps much lifted from the Trains Magazine special on Train Wrecks. But the comments by museum folks seen to indicate little interest in restoration of the 4876.

"I don't know why you even want to see this one,” Olsen said as I left. “If I wanted to see a GG-1, I'd go see the riveted-body one they have up in Strasburg, [Pa.]. (Zell Olsen, B&O Museum preservation/woodworker)

But the 4800 is sitting outside at Strasburg with just a plain coat of black paint. Really, how much wood work is on a GG!??? Maybe the arm cushion by the window.


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 Post subject: Re: GG-1 4876
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
The comment by the museum folks is nothing short of offensive. If someone speaking on behalf of a rail museum is questioning the reasoning behind wanting to see a certain historic piece of rail equipment, he is in effect denigrating the very reason that the museum he is standing in exists. The history of 4876 is no less important than the piece of B&O wooden rolling stock this guy was working on last.

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 Post subject: Re: GG-1 4876
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11482
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Let's look at the potential conversation as it might be overheard by a bystander:

"So, look. You want to see a GG1. The Museum at Strasburg has two really nicely restored and painted ones. Why do you want to come to this back lot and see one in terrible shape?"
"Because it's 4876!"
".................... ummm............."
"The one that crashed into Washington Union Station in 1953!"
"Oh, yeah, remember hearing something about that...."
"And it was taken apart, pulled from the basement, and repaired and put back into service!"
"Yeah, neat, so...... um....."
[guy goes looking for evidence of welds where it was disassembled]
"I'll.......... um........."

We're dancing on the fine line between history enthusiasm and outright nerdiness/dorkiness/geekiness here. And when folks start "demanding" that 4876 be restored and plinthed right at Track 16, they plunge head-first into the pit of nerd/geek without a safety line.

We're all guilty of it to some extent. I got special permission to go back behind the scenes to go see one of Steamtown's locos in 1980 just because it was a British steam locomotive--or, should I say, the other one. I caught an authorized ride on a light movement of passenger stock, with permission, just to knock off the last 20 miles of the Wilmington-Cape Charles NYP&N/PRR main line on my "mileage map" (the map itself is a dorky concept).

Mr. Olsen is a specialist, and a veteran of a couple different museums. Some people work at a museum for the "big picture"; others have a particular focus. I suspect it was just a casual, cavalier remark he didn't expect to be documented. I myself might have used considerably less "formal" terminology ("glutton for punishment," "masochist,"etc.) in the circumstances, and I'm a "Pennsy guy."


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 Post subject: Re: GG-1 4876
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:31 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2603
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Cut it in half.

Find two museums that want a G-1.


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 Post subject: Re: GG-1 4876
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:59 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:26 am
Posts: 95
Location: Princeton, NJ
Like this one?

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 067&nseq=0


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 Post subject: Re: GG-1 4876
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:46 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1346
Location: Chicago USA
On a GG1, the supertrucks* are articulated together, right? How does the body frame ride on the supertruck? I was wondering when they created that 2/3 GG1 switcher if they had add some restraining to keep the body in alignment with sole supertruck since the second is no longer present. The guiding truck is subordinate to the supertruck, not the body frame and thus could not help.

* Supertruck -- my own term for the G's big truck assemblies.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: GG-1 4876
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:56 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
I for one would love to closely scrutinize the 4876 to determine exactly how they cut it apart for removal and how it was reassembled. It is no more "geeky" or "dorky" than spending countless days sanding one layer of paint off another to determine a specific car's multiple paint schemes over its lifetime, or conserving an old horse car in severely rotted out condition because someone somewhere MIGHT be interested in knowing if the joint between the bottom rail and the third thingamajig on the left side was a dovetail joint, a rabbited joint, or a special rabbittailed dove joint.

Go back and read some of the old articles in L&RP and see just how "geeky" preservationists can be when it comes to historic fabric. IIRC the article was entitled "facadism".

If it is OK to use a stand in for 4876 as representative of the locomotive that crashed through WUS, then why all the fuss over finding the actual bus that Rosa Parks rode in over just finding another identical model elsewhere to stand in for that bus? Why is it important that the ACTUAL artifacts that took part in historic events be preserved instead of identical copies?

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 Post subject: Re: GG-1 4876
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 7
I would expect a representative from a museum show enthusiasm for each and every piece on their property, especially to a newspaper reporter requesting access and writing a story about one of the "other" pieces.....

Of course, its not a "B and O" piece, but it has its own historical significance.

Personally I think it should be displayed at Union Station in Washington. Now, i haven't been to WUS in I don't know how long, so I don't know where, but Im sure if someone looked hard enough, a spot could be found....

I also think it would be neat to have one displayed at Newark Penn Station as well, down in the plaza outside on the Market Steet side.

Its obvious museums don't necessarily want them, especially ones that are hundreds of miles from where they actually ran. So why not "stuff and mount" a few where they can at least be seen by the masses and bring a little recognition to historical railroad preservation? Any GG1 would be a perfect fit outside WUS, but why not put the one there that fell through the floor? It would be a great story at least, and a connection to a major event that happened there. Also, its not like we are talking about an "ugly" E60, or AEM7 or something like that, its a very....sharp looking machine and IMO, one of the best examples of art deco and streamlining to ever exist, and that is instantly recognizable to anyone who might not even know its a locomotive....

yea yea yea, I know, who is gonna pay, which ones should be used, are they roadworthy, etc are all big issues, but at least let yourself dream big for a second.


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 Post subject: Re: GG-1 4876
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:47 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11482
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
I heartily recommend--nay, order--that anyone interested in this subject who hasn't read this thread from the beginning do so now, especially the last post on the first page. Go on, we'll wait.

Nothing has changed in the meantime to make anything more favorable to the proposition of displaying a GG1 or anything else on trackage anywhere near Union Station. The "real estate" in Union is among the most expensive in the nation. At best, I *might* be able to find a stray siding at the far weedy end of Ivy City engine shop a mile or so up the track.

I already know that if I dare to bring up this "dead horse" one more time with even the "railfan" personnel in Amtrak's Washington offices, they will replicate the famous Homer Simpson "neck hug" of Bart on me.

So, one last time:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: GG-1 4876
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:20 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 7
I did read the entire thread, including that post you mention. Does it change my opinion? absolutely not.

Anyway, I didn't say on an ACTIVE track, I said AT the station. Just like at Newark Penn, the Market Street Plaza is at Street level (I think was the site of the freight house or yards maybe? There was obviously a switch off of track 5 that went down under the CNJ bridge to grade level)

Its obvious there is no chance of them ever running again, and moving them is quite a project, I know first and second hand all about the 2 GG1s moving all across NJT'land in recent years. Lay some panel track to a display location and let it sit, stuffed and mounted for all the world to see. They no longer have to be on live rail.

They can be moved into the "caged steam engine" category.


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 Post subject: Re: GG-1 4876
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
Alex,

I did just reread the entire thread. What happened with the interested party that you mentioned last year? Without getting into specifics I would just like to know if there is a party actively trying to acquire the locomotive or if it is once again an unwanted child?

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