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Working Winton 201 – Are there any? http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32725	Page 1 of 4

Author:	Steve B [ Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Working Winton 201 – Are there any?
Just about everyone on this board has more than likely heard a working 567 but what about its predecessor, the Winton 201? Are there any out that are in running order? Thanks, Steve Black

Author:	hamster [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Working Winton 201 – Are there any?
A quick Google for Winton 201 gave me this http://www.utahrails.net/loconotes/pcook-winton.php

Author:	John E. McNamara [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Working Winton 201 – Are there any?
Thanks for the URL. This is a very interesting article. Many postings that mention the Winton 201A describe it as a distillate engine, whereas this article says that it was a Diesel engine rather than a distillate engine. There are also a number of comments in the article that suggest that while the 201A was successful, you would not want to operate one on a regular basis today. It appears that the Flying Yankee Restoration Group made the correct decision if they anticipate running the Yankee on a regular basis.

Author:

filmteknik [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:00 am ]

Post subject:

Re: Working Winton 201 – Are there any?

I'm going to give you a little nitpick just for fun as it's an excuse to post these photos. This is the only Winton 201 known to exist. It's one of the two prototypes that were used on the demo Chevy assembly line at the Chicago World's Fair in 1933 (another V type went to the US Navy). This was one of the engines seen by the president of the Burlington and was thus selected to power the planned Zephyr train.

The catch of course is that these prototypes were Model 201. The production model, which of course is what you really mean, was Model 201A.

This engine is displayed at Illinois Railway Museum.

Steve

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winton201.jpg [ 132.11 KiB | Viewed 15250 times ]

Author:	PCook [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Working Winton 201 – Are there any?
For the sake of accuracy let me note that the 201A engine that is on open display in the coach shop area of the B&O museum is an eight cylinder, rather than a twelve cylinder as was originally in the linked article on Utah Rails and RYPN. (Text was edited on Utah Rails). It was the spare engine from the Canton Railroad's Winton powered switchers, and is probably in the best condition of all the Winton 201A engines that are preserved, but it is not in a locomotive. CSRM and IRM each have 12-201A engines that are not in locomotives. Both were originally at CSRM, acquired from a scrapper. In case anybody is curious, the 12-201 (not 201A) engine used for the Navy tests was run to destruction and scrapped back in the 1930s. A sixteen cylinder version of the 201 was also designed, but not built. A 1:8 model of the engine is in a retiree's collection. The 201 was very different in design from the 201A, it looked a lot more like the 567. PC

Author:

uboat2525 [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:23 am ]

Post subject:

Re: Working Winton 201 – Are there any?

John E. McNamara wrote:

Thanks for the URL. This is a very interesting article. Many postings that mention the Winton 201A describe it as a distillate engine, whereas this article says that it was a Diesel engine rather than a distillate engine. There are also a number of comments in the article that suggest that while the 201A was successful, you would not want to operate one on a regular basis today. It appears that the Flying Yankee Restoration Group made the correct decision if they anticipate running the Yankee on a regular basis.

To My Knowledge "the Flying Yankee Group" is Looking at a Possible John Deere Or Catapillar Bio Diesel or more EVO friendly Engine Replacement, after there first atempt at a rebuild of the Winton it was Cost prohibitive and replacement parts was the other issue

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Author:	PJS [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Working Winton 201 – Are there any?
Both Winton 12-201A engines remain in place in the original E unit, B&O 51, at the B&O Railroad Museum. However they have not operated in 60 years.

Author:	filmteknik [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Working Winton 201 – Are there any?
What did they actually remove from the E that was the basis of saying it was "rebuilt" into something else, just generators? Steve

Author:	wilkinsd [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Working Winton 201 – Are there any?
While not operational, the Museum of Transportation in St. Louis has 3 examples of Winton engines in equipment. The first is in an EMC NC (Nine Hundred HP, Cast Frame) Switcher. It is EMC S/N 651 (built May 1937): Youngstown and Northern Railroad #202, to Elgin, Joliet and Eastern Railroad #408 in April 1946, to Marinette, Tomahawk & Western Railroad #408, then finally to the Sabine River and Northern Railroad as #408. It is in the midst of a cosmetic restoration. The second is B&O #50. This is the twin 201-A powered passenger boxcab that the B&O and later the Chicago & Alton used. It was donated to MOT by EMD. The third is Boston and Maine #1180, an EMC Gas electric with a Winton Gas engines.

Author:	brettcog2000 [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Working Winton 201 – Are there any?
uboat2525 wrote: John E. McNamara wrote: Thanks for the URL. This is a very interesting article. Many postings that mention the Winton 201A describe it as a distillate engine, whereas this article says that it was a Diesel engine rather than a distillate engine. There are also a number of comments in the article that suggest that while the 201A was successful, you would not want to operate one on a regular basis today. It appears that the Flying Yankee Restoration Group made the correct decision if they anticipate running the Yankee on a regular basis. To My Knowledge "the Flying Yankee Group" is Looking at a Possible John Deere Or Catapillar Bio Diesel or more EVO friendly Engine Replacement, after there first atempt at a rebuild of the Winton it was Cost prohibitive and replacement parts was the other issue That is correct. I won't get into the sorid details here, but lets just say that there have been some very big issues with that engine....to the point of parts of it being auctioned off to help finace things. Very sad what has happened to that engine.

Author:	PCook [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Working Winton 201 – Are there any?
FYRG is still a ways away from making a decision about a replacement engine. Their newsletter late last year advised that they ran out of money in the middle of the weatherization project, the Hobo Railroad finished the work for them out of their own funds. Now they are trying to get some funds to proceed with the piping and electrical work that needs to be completed in order to allow putting it on its trucks. PC

Author:	whodom [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Working Winton 201 – Are there any?
Interesting thread. I've read somewhere (IIRC it was in a book on the development of diesels for WWII subs) that Charles Kettering, who worked at GM subsidiary Delco at the time, was instrumental in General Motors purchasing Winton. Kettering supposedly owned a pleasure boat powered by a Winton and was very impressed with its performance. At Kettering's urging, GM purchased Winton; GM's massive cash reserves and engineering resources allowed the engines to be developed to their full potential. Full development of these rugged, reliable, simple 2-stroke diesels pretty much led to the diesel locomotive revolution in the U.S. I've often wondered how differently things might have turned out if Kettering's Winton-powered boat had been troublesome. Yes, I'm sure U.S. railroads would be diesel powered by now, but we might have followed a timetable more like the rest of the world, achieving full dieselization in the late 60's vs. late 50's if EMD diesels hadn't been available.

Author:	Nova55 [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Working Winton 201 – Are there any?
Not to stray far from the 201A here, but just to prove a point.. A friend of mine is in the process of putting an even more rare Fairbanks Morse 35F10 (in a small tugboat) back in service after it wiped its main bearings about 20 years ago. Parts for this are just as impossible to find, although some did turn up. He is having the bearings completely recast, and is cutting them down himself. The engine The Piston Pins. These were also found to be worn out to much, but amazingly enough located a set from a dealer that had them "on the back wall". It would be great to see a 201 operate again today, even if it was just statically just like most of the surviving big Fairbanks Morse engines. As usual, It always boils down to money, and It seems like big engines usually take a back seat to cars and locomotives...

Author:	PJS [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Working Winton 201 – Are there any?
Quote: filmteknik Post subject: Re: Working Winton 201 – Are there any? What did they actually remove from the E that was the basis of saying it was "rebuilt" into something else, just generators? Steve Yes, AFAIK only the main generators were removed before EMD donated B&O 51 back to the railroad for their museum.

Author:	Brian Norden [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Working Winton 201 – Are there any?
Non-operating; but, I think that the California State RR Museum has an example of a 201A awaiting future display. When the SP modified and repowered its E2A cab unit with 567 engines at its Los Angeles general shops in the 1950s, the 201A engines from the unit went to a scrap yard in the LA harbor area. One of these was obtained decades later by CSRM.

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