It is currently Tue Apr 23, 2024 3:15 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Blacks in railroading
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:56 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 2043
Location: Southern California
I have seen a number of books and articles written about this subject or aspects of it. In many ways this followed employment patterns throughout American society.

The broad opening up of employment opportunities for black Americans did not start until sometime after the military was integrated during the Truman administration. While the major changes did not occur until following the major civil rights advances started during the Johnson administration.

Brian Norden

_________________
Brian Norden


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blacks in railroading
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3916
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Crosslink to related thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6408


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blacks in railroading
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:22 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:01 pm
Posts: 86
Location: LA or NC
If you want to see some serious track lining, check out this 1929 clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1O2X890 ... re=related


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blacks in railroading
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:54 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:07 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Baltimore, MD
Two great books about African - American railroaders:

Railroads in the African American Experience and Brotherhoods of Color

I can't remember the authors right of the top of my head (computer and library in different pars of the house).

_________________
James E. Reaves
Baltimore, MD


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blacks in railroading
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:45 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
First off, start with the Pullman Porters, one of the few career paths reliably available to blacks:

Probably the best source currently available is
Tye, Larry: "Rising From The Rails: Pullman Porters and the Making of the Black Middle Class"; Henry Holt & Co., NY 2004
ISBN-13: 978-0-8050-7850-3;
ISBN-10: 0-8050-7850-9

Very well-written account of the evolution of the Porters efforts at Trade Unionism, their social environment, and ultimately, their role as foundation to the creation of the Civil Rights movement. (Companion DVD has a couple of 1955 Pullman training filmstrips included, with scenes shot on on one of the Lackawanna ACF sleepers, and NKP's 5 double bedroom, club-diner lounge City of Cleveland).

Two other books I highly recommend are centered on first-person interviews, and are well worth searching for from out-of-print bookstores:

Santino, Jack: "Miles of Smiles, Years of Struggle: Stories of Black Pullman Porters"; University of Illinois Press, Chicago, 1989
ISBN 0-252-0159106

Perata, David D. "Those Pullman Blues: An Oral History of the African American Railroad Attendant"; Twayne Publishers, Oral History Series #22; An imprint of Simon & Schuster Macmillan, NY 1996
ISBN 0-8057-4520-3

_________________
John Isaksen


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blacks in railroading
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:40 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:23 am
Posts: 2
Regarding good scholarship on this topic:
Eric Arnesen's Brotherhoods of Color is the finest book on black railroad labor and unionization attempts.
The most comprehensive work, including black slaves in many occupations; firemen; engineers; brakemen; porters (both coach and Pullman); cooks; waiters; stewards; MOW laborers; roundhouse, shop, and yard workers; plus segregation, is my own:
Theodore Kornweibel, Railroads in the African American Experience: A Photographic Journey (2010)

See also my comment in the thread on Jim Crow segregation.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blacks in railroading
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:56 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:07 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Baltimore, MD
Several years later let me add I wrote my master's thesis on the topic of Pullman porters, but I also covered African-American railroaders in general. A fascinating, important and underrepresented subject in American railroad history.

_________________
James E. Reaves
Baltimore, MD


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blacks in railroading
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:05 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 1184
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Bob Davis wrote:
As I recall, on many if not most railroads in the "Old South", a black man could be the fireman on a steam locomotive, but could not aspire to promotion to engineer. Could someone with more knowledge of the subject advise as to whether this was an unwritten "tradition" or part of the union agreements?


Such provisions were actually written provisions in union agreements. Management often used the black unions as a wedge against the white unions to force them to agree to terms more favorable to management. The Southern played the race card quite freely when negotiating with their firemen. Many railroads in the north and other regions acted similarly once the blacks began migrating away from the south. We also have to remember that the reason that the blacks formed their own unions was not that they wanted black unions. None of the white unions would accept them.

Pullman, while vaunted for their hiring of blacks as porters, was perhaps the worst offender when it came to their treatment of black employees. If you were black, you had no upward mobility in the Pullman Company and in fact, were not allowed to live in the company's utopian town of Pullman, Illinois. It was not until the very end of Pullman passenger operations that blacks were promoted to supervisory positions such as Steward or Conductor in the company. This was actual company policy. Being a Pullman employee was a means to an end-it was merely a stepping stone on the path to economic security and the middle class for many blacks. Fred Harvey had a similar policy for minorities working in their restaurants. Japanese, Hispanic and Filipino persons were only employed for "back of the house" positions. Only whites were hired for front of the house positions.

Having read both "Brotherhoods of Color" and "Rising from the Rails", I would say that anyone interested in the history of minorities and the railroads ought to read both. Each book has it's strong points and complements the other.

_________________
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."- Conductor Nimrod Bell, 1896


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blacks in railroading
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:34 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:33 pm
Posts: 22
Here is an article I wrote on the subject a few years ago:

http://www.texassantafehistory.com/q%20osborn.pdf

- Wm Osborn Austin Texas


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blacks in railroading
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:53 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:33 pm
Posts: 22
Regarding the employment of blacks, rather than transportation of them, the Santa Fe in Texas had some very strict but unwritten practices. Beginning in the middle 1990s I tape recorded interviews with about 60 retirees, the earliest date of service within memory still then alive being 1921. There was much interest by them in this topic. As an example, for at least the first 100 years of its life, the branch between Somerville and Silsbee had black fireman, exclusively. Also, some maintenance of way gangs in some sections of East Texas were exclusively black.

I have the Santa Fe's payroll ledger for its entire Texas system covering a few months in 1886, and if the last names are an accurate guide, some of the section gangs were exclusively Irish. This was just before purchase of the GC&SF by the AT&SF. The GC&SF was headquartered in Galveston, which as an immigration port doubtless received many fleeing Ireland for better prospects in America.

As the GC&SF built westward across Texas its use of black employees was at times and places a source of considerable friction, in one instance dooming the industrial future of a community intolerant of blacks, and a backwater ever since, as a result. See the following for a discussion of decision by the Railway company to move its shops from Goldthwaite to Brownwood for such reason. Goldthwaite withered as a result:

http://www.texassantafehistory.com/Gold ... tation.htm

- Wm Osborn


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blacks in railroading
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:55 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 2667
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Short lines might have hired blacks in higher ratios than class Is.
For example, one of the main mechanics on the East Tennessee & Western North Carolina RR (the Tweetsie) was a black man named Andy Kern. He even brzed #12's number plate back together (his work can still be seen on the plate) when 12 ran into cars in a yard and heavily damaged the smokebox. He did plenty of work there as well over a long career.

_________________
Lee Bishop


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blacks in railroading
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:47 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:05 pm
Posts: 116
The Pacific Southwest Railway Museum in Campo, CA (San Diego County) has a very extensive exhibit on Blacks in Railroading, put together by Dr. Ted Kornweibel. The attraction is multiple photo displays along with the award winning Jim Crow combination coach.

_________________
Jim Lundquist, Director of Museum Services
Pacific Southwest Railway Museum
Campo, CA (San Diego County)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blacks in railroading
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:43 am 

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:25 am
Posts: 85
Tim Gautreaux wrote:
If you want to see some serious track lining, check out this 1929 clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1O2X890 ... re=related


A bit OT, but I'd take a legitimate surfacing/lining gang 30 lining bars and a good ADE or supervisor that actually knows how to stringline a curve and calculate throws... over a Mark IV production tamper ANY DAY.

Here is on of my favorite reference photos from my copy of W.M. Camp's Notes on Track:

Image

RCW


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blacks in railroading
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:47 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:37 am
Posts: 150
I fully support the comments made about Rising From the Rails.
George Pullman established the company only a year after Lincoln abolished slavery and it was exactly the sort of person he was looking to be porters.
The thing is, this job was seen as prestigious, because the porters not only got (poorly) paid for doing what they had previously not been paid to do but they got to see the country and even had the opportunity to read newspapers left behind by passengers!
One of the most amusing aspects I thought was the general nickname for Pullman porters became "George". I wonder what George Pullman thought of that!
cheers, Bob


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blacks in railroading
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:22 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:25 am
Posts: 1025
Most of these postings have been about the "main line" railroads. Last year I learned the story of Maya Angelou, renowned poet, author, singer and actress and her first "day job". It was in 1943 that she applied for work as a streetcar conductor for the Market St. Railway in San Francisco. The personnel manager keep stalling, but she came back to the office every day until the company accepted her application and put her to work. At the Muni Heritage Weekend event last November, a local high school student, dressed in a conductor's uniform from the 1940s, recited some of Ms. Angelou's poems. One can imagine some crusty old motorman going to the supervisor and saying, "What's the big idea of assigning this colored girl to be my conductor?" And the supervisor might have said, "In case you haven't noticed, there's a war on, buddy. She can do the job and you can do yours. Get going!"


Attachments:
IMG_2733.JPG
IMG_2733.JPG [ 292.47 KiB | Viewed 7276 times ]

_________________
Bob Davis
Southern California
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Paul D and 180 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: