It is currently Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:39 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Southern Railway 4501 Update
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:46 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:34 am
Posts: 336
10/19/12 Update

Here is an update on the restoration and upgrade of Locomotive 4501 -

New Backhead - Welding to the boiler is now complete. Radiography of the weld is being arranged. The vendor and a subject matter expert were onsite yesterday to discuss the work.

Dome Course Flush Patch - Weld out of the flush patch to replace the original forge weld is in progress. This is the last major repair to the boiler.

Firebox - All sheets are in and welded out. The corners will be installed at the very end. Diversified Rail Services will be at the shop beginning Tuesday to support brace, rivet, and staybolt installation. The goal is to have a finished firebox when they depart.

Stoker - The stoker components have been refurbished and awaiting installation.

Feedwater Heater - The hot water pump is now mounted in front of the cylinders (just like her other Ms sisters) and the mounting for the heater has been fabricated and was placed on the smokebox yesterday. The original entire smokebox extension (20 inches) was really used up so it has been removed and will be replaced with all new material. The cylinder saddle has been machined to provide the take-offs for the exhaust steam (the 1945 replacement cylinders just happened to have the pads cast into them for the exhaust steam connections - almost like the railroad had plans to add a feedwater heater).

Tender - The interior of the tank has been blast cleaned and coated. Final structural modifications are underway for the stoker trough.

Cab - The cab restoration is complete with an all new tongue and groove wood lining applied.

Machinery - Not much progress here. All journals have been turned and 8 new crank pins will be installed. 4501 will also be converted to the spring pad oil lubricated journals and the lead truck converted to roller bearing. We are still studying a conversion of the trailing truck to roller bearing.

More later as progress continues...

_________________
G. Mark Ray - TVRM
www.tvrail.com


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway 4501 Update
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:51 am 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:46 pm
Posts: 1299
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Good to know!
I saw her in the shop at the beginning of September when I was there and there was a lot of welding going on in the smokebox at that time.
Looked so odd to see 630 with 4501's old tender...

_________________
Lee Bishop


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway 4501 Update
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:19 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:28 pm
Posts: 191
p51 wrote:
Looked so odd to see 630 with 4501's old tender...


630 doesn't have 4501's old tender. 630 has the frame of 4501's old tender. The tender body is sitting on a flatcar on a siding just west of the river bridge on the Grand Junction end of the line (unless it's been moved since the 2011 Railfest).
Kevin


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway 4501 Update
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:32 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:25 pm
Posts: 1405
The tender for SR 4501 was discussed at length here:

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28739&hilit=4501+tender


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway 4501 Update
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:55 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:46 pm
Posts: 1299
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Kevin Gilliam wrote:
630 doesn't have 4501's old tender. 630 has the frame of 4501's old tender. The tender body is sitting on a flatcar on a siding just west of the river bridge on the Grand Junction end of the line (unless it's been moved since the 2011 Railfest).
It was still sitting there when I rode TMRM last month. Sorry, I thought the tender had been swapped as one of the volunteers there said that.
Anyone have a clue as to what will happen to the hulk of 630's original tender? I'm a big ET&WNC fan and I'd hate to see it scrapped...

_________________
Lee Bishop


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway 4501 Update
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:42 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:49 am
Posts: 545
Having never seen 4501's trailing truck in person, what are the challenges of converting it to roller bearings? Size of the journal/ axle?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway 4501 Update
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:40 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:34 am
Posts: 336
Simple answer: Time and money

As we all know conversion of the lead truck is a fairly simple operation. However, it appears the trailing truck will require much more fabrication and machining to convert to a roller bearing. We still have to understand the truck swing issue that is causing spring failures.

I was in DC recently at an ASME Boiler Code meeting. I was able to visit the 1401 while there. I noted two things about the 1401 that I'd never noticed before (because I wasn't looking) - 1) all the journal boxes are equipped with water pipes for cooling (I have seen the drawings for this) and 2) the trailing truck springs were equipped with extra bands at the quarter points to prevent torquing of the spring from the swing of truck. That tells me that this issue with the Hodges design really never was solved by the Southern. They just lived with it or couldn't afford the modfications to correct the condition.

One word about 630's old tender. That is not 630's original tender. Her original tender was a shorter 6,000 gallon tank. We have no idea when the 7,500 tank was applied. It could have occurred during her upgrade to a Ks-1. We have discussed using the frame of the tender for a new water car. That would give us one each for 630 and 4501.

_________________
G. Mark Ray - TVRM
www.tvrail.com


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway 4501 Update
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:20 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:06 am
Posts: 364
Location: NE PA
A Thai version of their trailing truck, perhaps they had similar problems.
Image


Reducing the allowed lateral in converting from friction to roller bearings had caused premature wear issues with the radius transitioning from the wheel tread to the flange, which in turn lead to thin flange conditions. Some railroads added hardened rollers and wear plates to the top of the boxes to add more lateral motion to alleviate the issue. This was more commonly found on the leading wheels of 4 wheel trailing trucks

Keep up the great work.
Mike Tillger


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway 4501 Update
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:34 pm
Posts: 390
Facinating delema. I really appreciate threads like this that deal with stress to the running gear {I consider lead/trailing trucks to be part of running gear}. Working on the Polson #2 has been interesting for me as I slowly get a better grasp on what causes stress/wear and how the whole thing is intregrated with everything that moves. Even things that are not suppossed to move!

Thank you for the updates and the little bits and pieces, very interesting wish I was more involved. By chance any pics of the firebox repairs or dome repairs?

Again thanks for the updates. Cheers, John.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway 4501 Update
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:56 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 46
So, for the lead truck, you would remove the wheels, press bearings on the axle and then press the wheels back on?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway 4501 Update
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:21 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:28 am
Posts: 120
If you have ridden behind SOU 4501 since even the 1980's...you would notice the pilot wheel was reaching the end slowly and surely.

I imagine that SOU 4501 will receive a brand new roller bearing wheel just as the SOU 630 received in her overhaul.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway 4501 Update
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:21 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:28 am
Posts: 120
If you have ridden behind SOU 4501 since even the 1980's...you would notice the pilot wheel was reaching the end slowly and surely.

I imagine that SOU 4501 will receive a brand new roller bearing wheel just as the SOU 630 received in her overhaul.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway 4501 Update
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 925
Location: Chicago USA
How old are those wheels? I bet anything off 4501 could bring in some welcome revenue, certainly better than scrap metal value.

Steve


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway 4501 Update
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:34 am
Posts: 336
ORX will supply a complete wheelset and bearing houses. The bearing houses will be machined to fit into the existing pedestal openings in the truck frame and to accept the equalizers.

_________________
G. Mark Ray - TVRM
www.tvrail.com


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway 4501 Update
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:13 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:46 pm
Posts: 1299
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
filmteknik wrote:
How old are those wheels? I bet anything off 4501 could bring in some welcome revenue, certainly better than scrap metal value.
Funny how in RR preservation, people never think of stuff like this, huh?
If you look at space program collecting, it's very common to take an item (such as a space-flown piece or something directly used in launching a spacecraft) and chop it up into very small pieces and making display sets from those small chunks, or melting down the 'flown' piece into molten metal and making coins from it.
Another good example was a airplane museum in Florida I saw last year. They had a C-47 transport plane that had dropped paratroopers on D-day and had had a accident a few years before where they dinged up a wing. Instead of scarpping the wing that could never be flown on again, they stripped all the metal 'skin' off it and sold sections for a small donation. I gladly got two of them. Like the movie "The Right Stuff" mentioned, people have a taste for things that have 'been there'.
With RR preservation, such pieces are usually sent to the scrapper or more often left to rust out behind the shop building.
What would someone pay for one of 4501's wheels, or a piece of one? Who knows, as I can't imagine anything like that would ever come up for sale. Because that's just not what people think to do. Other than the obvious things (number plates, headlights, bells and gauges), nobody thinks anyone would ever want a piece of a steam locomotive.

_________________
Lee Bishop


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: