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 Post subject: Wreck Derrick weight
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:56 am
Posts: 1330
Location: Roanoke Va.
Does anyone out there know the approximate total weight of a circa WWI Industrial Brownhoist 120 ton wreck derrick? I need info ASAP for an equipment move that has to be finished by Friday.

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 Post subject: Re: Wreck Derrick weight
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:50 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:59 pm
Posts: 525
I think about 220.000 pounds is pretty close.


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 Post subject: Re: Wreck Derrick weight
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:56 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
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Location: Southern California
I show Orange Empire's ex-SP #MW7090, an Industrial Works, 120-ton capacity derrick built in 1912 as having a weight of 222,100 pounds.

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Brian Norden


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 Post subject: Re: Wreck Derrick weight
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:06 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 311
Location: Ventura County, CA
Wow! Travel Town's 40 ton American locomotive crane weighs in at 237,000 pounds. While our crane has a much longer boom and is designed to do most of its lifts on its wheels versus the wreck crane generally using out-riggers, its still amazing that we are heavier.

Greg

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US Navy Trackage SME
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 Post subject: Re: Wreck Derrick weight
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:31 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:11 pm
Posts: 345
Our 1971 built Orton 200 ton crane weighs 358,000.


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 Post subject: Re: Wreck Derrick weight
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:06 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:56 am
Posts: 1330
Location: Roanoke Va.
I'm pleased to report that the wreck derrick move was completed by Will Harris today and the crane is back on live rail and out of danger of scrapping. Mr. Pullman & CBQ483 have pictures, look for them soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Wreck Derrick weight
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:35 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2170
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Not looking to steal anyone's thunder, but I've been holding these since Sunday 12/23, awaiting Gary's official mention of this project. On a visit to Roanoke two weeks ago, he said "You have to see this little project we've been working on." OK, says I.

It isn't every day that you can see the seemingly impossible happen right in front of you. "You're going to put THAT on THERE???" As Papa Boule said, "Watch me!"

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The excavator gave a push and the truck winch did the pulling; at one point, the winch cable had to be re-set and the excavator boom/bucket held the crane 3/4 of the way up the ramp.

One of the amazing things here is that the little part of land the crane was on, was the original level of the surrounding area. The topography and constraints of this property and the sheer size and weight of the crane make this an extraordinary extraction job. I can't wait to see the rest of the move photos, and the crane back on the rails.

Nice crane, looks 90% complete. Last dates stenciled on it were 10/64.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: Wreck Derrick weight
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:48 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3054
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Amazing!! Simply amazing!! And congratulations on saving something that just isn't made anymore!

I've got to ask, what's the story on this? How did that crane get away from a working railroad? How did the land get built up so around it? How did it survive all this time without being scrapped? How did it survive all this time without half of it being hauled off?

Sounds like a lot of silly questions, probably, but still, you don't find something like this every day.

It's almost like finding that 1930 Cadillac or Auburn or something in a barn, and with a new battery and tires, and fresh gas and oil it's ready to run.

Which reminds me--what about that truck? Looks like a former military rig of some kind.

And finally, is it only steam rail enthusiasts of a certain age who would take inspiration from a quote by Papa Boule?


Last edited by J3a-614 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wreck Derrick weight
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:54 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:19 am
Posts: 46
Mr. Pullman is working on a writeup of the history of the crane and will post that with some of his pictures in the near future. In the meantime, here are some videos from this afternoon of the crane being unloaded and moved to the spot where it will be stored for the time being.

Unloading Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct9gUHjYQIU

Unloading Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgvH_Szxv1k

Rolling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgYs8YRmIoU

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Last edited by CBQ483 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wreck Derrick weight
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:55 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:56 am
Posts: 1330
Location: Roanoke Va.
Howard, She dropped back down onto live rail about 2:00 this afternoon, with a dozer, the excavator, and a tow truck in attendance. You could almost hear a sigh of relief from that poor trailer. The crane is now on an unused siding over in the concrete plant, about 1/8 of a mile from where your pictures were taken.

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 Post subject: Re: Wreck Derrick weight
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:07 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 965
Location: Leicester, MA.
Just wondering, but how did a derrick like that end up in the middle of that field? Was there and old spur of some kind, or did someone just dump it where it sat?

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 Post subject: Re: Wreck Derrick weight
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:30 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:38 pm
Posts: 211
Location: Roanoke VA
Guy's I hear your questions and will be providing your answers with images to support tonight. Already into another day on the Railroad (NS, "pays the bills") and once that's done tonight we will address preservation.

Thank you for your patience.

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Steven Smith
Roanoke / Salem VA


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 Post subject: Re: Wreck Derrick weight
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:04 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 642
That was indeed quite a rescue, congrats to those who pulled it off.

Speaking of wreck crane weights in general reminded me of an interesting incident I witnessed in the late 1960s. I was working at Union Switch & Signal's old Swissvale, PA plant at the time. US&S was still operating their own forge shop at the time. They had a huge and very heavy forging press that needed moved, so they hired the PRR's Pitcairn wreck train for the day. The wrecker was a steam powered 250 ton model. Its stenciled weight was 379,000 lbs. Under its own power it moved into position in a narrow bay between two buildings. The outriggers were spread and the lift was made. The huge press was hoisted off its mounts and set on a flatcar. When the wrecker began to back out of the siding, the outside rail on the curve rolled over and all 12 wheels of this giant machine hit the ties. Most of the ties fractured like toothpicks, as did the rail, in several places. Thus followed multiple days of intensive effort to rerail the crane. Given the tight location, it wasn't possible to bring other cranes into play. This job was done the hard way, with many laborers, much blocking, and many large jacks. Took the better part of a week. I've often wondered who picked up the tab for all that unplanned effort.


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 Post subject: Re: Wreck Derrick weight
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:38 pm
Posts: 211
Location: Roanoke VA
One of the last items to be saved from what was left of the Lost engines (Equipment) of Roanoke would be the Former N&W 120ton Wreck Derrick 514908 which as some of you have already read the move was completed on Sunday Jan 6th.

Here is more information on the Steam Crane and it's related former resting site, Virginia Scrap Iron & Metal Co. Roanoke VA. This writen as part story and part as answers to your questions Enjoy!

History as listed on Industrial Brownhoist PDF Crane Listing:

Build Number 2230 120ton W 1910
Norfolk & Western #4974 to 514908
Cost new $13,430
Roanoke Iron & Pipe, Roanoke, VA 03-21-81 (10-28-66?)
Virginia Scrap Iron & Metal Co, Roanoke Va. ((Here 01-21-08?)
(Now Saved for preservation, Jan 6th 2013)

Industrial Brownhoist PDF Crane Listing:
http://www.bay-journal.com/bay/1he/bus/ib/ib-crane-listing.pdf

The Crane was one of the long standing residences of The “Other” Virginia Scrap Iron & Metal Co. (VSI&MCo) sites in Roanoke.

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Most people knew about the Main Scrap yard located near downtown Roanoke on South Jefferson St. that was serviced off the N&W Winston Salem Line, south of downtown. The other scrap site with the crane was historically just as busy as the downtown location with a switching lead off the Virginian and feet away from a diamond and junction of the N&W Belt line around Roanoke and the former Virginian Main line leading into Roanoke’s South Yard. Also worth mentioning is the N&W Roanoke/System Material yard was hundreds of feet away as well lending to many of the finds seen in this scrap yard over the years.

The Second site, referred to as the Norwich location, or Bridge St Location of Virginia Scrap late in life became the collection site for the recycling of pipe and dimensional steel, and the downtown location handling the more normal scrap metal for recycling destined for the local steel mill. While the Downtown location having on its site the lost engines/equipment of Roanoke, the four (4) steamers, two (2) diesels, two tenders, and a flat car, Oh and yes Howard the four (4) N&W Hopper Cars!. The “other/second” site in Norwich had many interesting items in its “Jungle” of metal and over growth of vegetation! Like a Steam Crane and flat, an early Roanoke built express car, riveted tank cars, parts, MANY PARTS! And never ending trails a foot wide weaving in around what seemed like prehistoric railroad ghost lost but not forgotten by some to be explored sometimes during the summer in jungle like atmosphere if you were brave or in the better and more clear winter when the jungle of trees and vines would again let you see what is hidden most of the year.

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I was lucky knowing of this site even before I could drive my mother would drop me off, of all places on a Saturday morning at an over grown scrap yard. So that I could ask Herman the Saturday site Forman for permission to wonder back and explore the railroad artifacts hidden in the piles. After I could drive I continued to stop by a couple times a year and visit a friend at the gate and older friends back in the forgotten “Jungle”. Over time the bulk of the Norwich site was covered with large and unusual scrap items most of great age that just continued to pile up and where never scrapped. One learned after a couple of visits where the older piles were and where the new material was being sorted; I always explored the older ghost from railroads past. Further back in the site at the end of what was at one time the main siding into the middle of the scrap yard now sat the Steam Crane a boom tender flat and an express car. Years before Norfolk & Western Steam was scrapped on this same track, an N&W A-class was cut up where the crane was parked among others. The Crane sat at the end of the siding long since been cut from the main and long since covered with this and that leading to the front gate.

Moving on now too more recent times after the passing of the owner of Virginia Scrap Iron & Metal Co. the executer of the estate was left with closing, dissolving and cleaning up the two former sites of the company. Both environmental and recycling challenges to be dealt with for sure. The Executer of the company worked well with local museums and preservationist to save what they could of what they knew about! Of the lost engines in downtown Roanoke at the main site, all the lost steam loco’s found new homes, both of the diesels have new homes, and the other equipment has since been saved as well. While much of the good “Small” railroad items were lost to scrappers in the hurried days shortly after the company closed like number boards stacked up in a back room like manhole covers, 55gallon drums full of Hooter whistle tops and so much more was lost, but so much of this wasn’t known about by most and only so much could be saved…But with that being said so much was being done still to save the larger items and then came the Norwich site… The "other site” was second to receive cleaning and land reclamation! The site was cleansed of its metal and treed jungle and load after load of ancient goodies were hauled off to the mill. For so long the “Cast items, the Iron” wasn’t worth scrapping but now it was clean up time and everything went to the mill, Steam Locomotive drivers heaped up here and passenger car seats heaped up there, Baggage cart parts piled up here and Mars and Gyro Lights in the bens full by the hundreds. The riveted tank car body’s stacked up like cordwood beside the steam crane come to mind of what could have been saved.

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So much was leaving in truck loads. I remember looking at a pile of Scrap once many feet taller than myself and realizing that it was made up of Caboose coal Stoves, some complete and whole and many more in parts, how I wished I could have saved more. Once the yard was clear only a couple of key items were left the Steam crane being one of them, it was left setting in a field all by its self no trees, no vines, and no piles of scrap around anymore. Next in the cleaning up of the scrap yards was the reclamation of the hazardous waste of contaminated dirt, from years of journal oil and busted motor blocks and barrels of this and that. After much moving around of the dirt, the whole place was capped with eight to ten feet of dirt some here more there.

The agreement with the executer was that the Museum could have the Crane but they had till the last day of 2012 to remove it from the land before the land and what was on it became the property of another owner, a new recycling company, that now owns the Steel mill and most of the other scrap sites in town. Well that brings us to the present, recently the end of 2012 and the need to remove the crane from its long time resting place came and went. With all the other preservation projects demanding our time and resources leading to this point in time this one had taken center stage due to deadlines, it was time to move the crane! In the eleventh hour with days then hours left the crane was moved off the land first just across the property line then after some minor regrouping and addressing one high grade crossing that posed a problem for a 210,000 pound load on a lowboy trailer looking to get out of a hole and find a new home on live rail. So on Jan 6th the crane completed its short but complicated journey from its long time sleepy resting place to a new future in preservation! The N&W Steam Crane marks the last major piece of equipment that was left to remove off the former Virginia Scrap Iron & Metal Co sites.
N&W Crane 514908 is now back on live rail.

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With so much moved it is now time to continue to focus on restoring what’s been saved.
More on this project to come!

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Steven Smith
Roanoke / Salem VA


Last edited by Mr.Pullman on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wreck Derrick weight
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:16 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2170
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
WOW.

Any of those caboose stoves happen to "fall off the truck", as we say in New York?

The entire "Lost Engines" story just gets more and more fascinating!

Howard P.

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