Okay David, I'll bite. What are the Princeton Shops bell style and handrail configurations? Photo example perhaps?

Les

Probably referring to the vertical bell mounted in front of the smokebox with the the grabs extending down from the boiler side and onto the pilot. Same way it was delivered to the K&T and kept until initial restoration in Chattanooga.



I do think it'd be neat if we can find that old smoke deflector again.

Just a reminder that the 4501 shall not appear the same as it ever has before and shall emerge from the restoration quite similar to the following images of the Ms freight hogs.
http://southern.railfan.net/images/arch ... u4505.html
http://southern.railfan.net/images/arch ... u4618.html

SR6900 -

Okay, if that's the way Princeton Shops modified SR steamers and what Mr. Wilkins was talking about, then I'd second the notion.

BTW, if we're going to look for the smoke deflector, maybe we should check the old K&T Shops in Stearns to see if the original 4501 number plate might still be there. Looks like they removed it when they renumbered the engine as K&T 12.

Les

I'm surprised that no one has yet suggested this on the paint scheme. Why not paint her in pre-1926 passenger colors. For those of you unfamiliar with Southern paint schemes, the lettering & striping would be essentially the same as the green & gold, but on a black locomotive. Still passenger colors, but think steam version of the "Tuxedo" F-units. Given that 4501 will be operating primarily with a red passenger train, I think that would work much better than green. There is a historical precedent for "freight hogs" in these colors, as there are photos of some switchers & smallers engines in this combination. It would also define another era in 4501's history, having another unique but authentic paint scheme for her time in the 21st Century Steam program

The smoke deflector may have come to Chattanooga with the 4501, I'll have to look at pictures again. But I think most stuff the K&T changed probably stayed in Stearns.

I have thought about modifying my drawing for 630's plate for a block style for the 4501, just for kicks and giggles. I doubt though that plate will change. Though not as common as the block plates or even the bowties, there were some with Roman style numbers. Main reason for the new plate on 630 was.. well.. the old plate didn't look that great. Perhaps from a distance, it did, but up close some of the lettering was crooked and uneven. Everyone seems content with 4501's plate.

Looking at the photos of in-service sisters to the 4501 reminded me of what a handsome steam roster the SR had; H. Stanford Bryant, in his book "The Georgian Locomotive" (a slim book that studied the locomotive as architecture), had a whole chapter on Southern steam. It's too bad more of it didn't survive, including an accessible Ps-4 or two, or maybe a Ts or Ts-1 4-8-2.

One (admittedly nitpicky) thing that I would like to see would be proper tender trucks under the tank. Those modern freight trucks with rotating-cap roller bearings just don't look right there--although I do understand why they're under the tender of the 630 and other locomotives.

I won't complain, though,as long as our lovely lady is good and hot.

I'm not sure whether they are heavy-duty enough to work, but the trucks from the Amtrak material handling cars do look a lot like certain styles of tender trucks

The smoke deflector was for CNO&TP service, not K&T. They left it on as it's visible in the shots of #12 in service there including when Morgan & Hastings visited.

But it was gone from the engine when she went back down to Chattanooga, a trip made under her own power, with number and number plate restored, on June 9, 1964. I suppose they could have taken it along but most likely it went to junk in Stearns.

Steve

Mr. 6900 is correct. That is the bell and handrail arrangement I was speaking of.

When people think of the Southern, I doubt they think of Princeton, Indiana and the St. Louis line.

The run from Stearns to Chattanooga was on June 6, 1964. The smoke deflector was removed by Merriman, Soule, Ragan, Kaplan, etc. while "restoring" 4501 to her Southern appearance prior to the move. This doesn't mean it didn't make the trip however. Later when TVRM purchased K&T #10 there was another opportunity for parts to be transferred.

BTW: Speaking of Stearns, how many viewers realize that the K&T water column is now in use at Greenfield Village in Michigan?

At the risk of being hauled out and strung up for heresy, since this will be a new era of operation for 4501, how about a new scheme incorporating both the black and green? As much as I love the green, the prospect of a green locomotive pulling a (mostly) red train...well, seems to me too much like the model train running around under the Christmas tree.

What about a combination of the early black/gold trim scheme mentioned by Gary Gray (illustration provided by Jeff Lisowski) modified with a green boiler jacket? Lots of precedent for a colored boiler jacket on a mostly black locomotive. Not historic, but I think a classy appearing locomotive could be had, with a new scheme to define her new operating era.

Just a thought...

I know- mask it off down the centerline and paint one side in the Southern green scheme and the other side black. That way people could see the engine in both schemes on every trip (coming and going).

Eh, cosmetics-schmosmetics! Since you've already done the rest of the hot rod tricks, I think you should be playing around with that exhaust system inside the smokebox (ala GCRR #29 and #4960).

"As much as I love the green, the prospect of a green locomotive pulling a (mostly) red train...well, seems to me too much like the model train running around under the Christmas tree."--Stephen S. Syfrett

Well now, there's a simple solution to that--paint the passenger cars Pullman green. More typical than the red they've been in, and we (sadly) don't have a J with its red stripe to pull them (at least for now). Easy, too, especially for me, since I'm NOT the one who will be doing it! :-D

Light green engine, or a black engine, on a Pullman green train--classic!

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 789&nseq=9

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... =6#remarks

Alternately, you could paint her red. I understand some Pennsy K4s were in red for a while in the 1920s, although I have to say the effect is more that of an LGB model:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 80&nseq=20

"Eh, cosmetics-schmosmetics! Since you've already done the rest of the hot rod tricks, I think you should be playing around with that exhaust system inside the smokebox (ala GCRR #29 and #4960)."--W. H. Odom

Or a really heavy rebuild to a modern form, like a duplex--might give those guys with the Santa Fe 4-6-4 a run for the money!! :-D

http://www.railarchive.net/fantasysteam ... ex_rcl.htm

(Watch what you post--sooner or later someone will use it for fun!!)

Found this shot--4501 as K&T 12 in 1962:

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/9576726

Enjoy!

Here's one from left field:

Do it in black, either freight or passenger.

Then, sometime in the future when the engine is on the Rat Hole, use magnetic sheets to cover the striping and to temporarily re-letter/renumber the locomotive to K&T 12 and display it live at Stearns for a couple of days.

Perhaps when the "new" K&T 0-6-0 is back in service and can join the "12".

Would only take an hour or two to make it over to K&T 12 and then return it back to SR 4501 without messing up any paint.

Understanding that this is an NS/TVRM decision....wonder what Andy Fletcher could conceptualize/illustrate?