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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:56 am
Posts: 1330
Location: Roanoke Va.
tim o'm wrote:
6-18003 wrote:
A well heeled gentleman wanted to purchase her and gift the loco to Steamtown but the deal fell through.


Hmmm. I wonder if I was that well-heeled gentleman?


Don't know, Tim. Do you ever wear cowboy boots?.....:)

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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:21 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1048
Location: Youngstown, OH
Jason,

There is quite an elevation change between the PC&Y trackage and the level the 643 is at. It would take a great deal of grading, but probably still easier than trying to move it out via CSX.

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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5254
Location: southeastern USA
We're talking about a city that leveled a slag dump in use for decades when steel was steel and Americans were well paid to make it to build a shopping mall in its place. How the mighty have fallen...........

Which of course means that in a city that is nothing but grade seperations, it isn't an unusual or big deal. My great grandfather moved houses down the Mon a bit with nothing but old telephone poles, jacks, mules and Italians.

It isn't the logistics - its the title. Sure would look good in front of the WABCO plant in Wilmerding.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:00 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2080
Ross is putting up the challenge to all you out there in internetland.

At some point in time it could come down to the Lost Engines ordeal.

Lets hope no mysterious gas cutters show up suddenly some night...

it doesnt seem so difficult, he's moved the engine on air pressure without firing it.
With that and some panel track, a temp switch, yer outa there.


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:33 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8356
Location: Baltimore, MD
dinwitty wrote:
Ross is putting up the challenge to all you out there in internetland.


Balderdash. He issued no challenge. He only told us some version of the current situation from his perspective.

The challenge is the price. Plain and simple.

The people in a position to do something about it (translation: with enough dollars) can't or won't meet the demanded price, which includes BOTH title of ownership AND transportation costs. And they didn't accumulate the money to be a serious player by throwing it around frivolously.

Those making the most noise don't have the money. Get back to us when you have that winning Powerball ticket or whatnot, and even then he could still say "no."

There comes a point, after putting up with this balderdash for DECADES, that you just turn around, go home, and wait for someone to die, get religion, get a clue, or whatever. I've watched at least five such scenarios in Pennsylvania and surrounding states drag on for that long. Two of them had happy endings ("Lost Engines of Roanoke," the West Virginia Northern 2-8-0s). We're still waiting for a couple others to finally "resolve," one being 643.


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:56 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1604
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
ADM4th. is spot on and that's twice in the same year I've agreed with him and that's probably dangerous?

I tried my best several years ago acting strictly as a "friend of the court" to broker a deal between Glen Campbell and the Age of Steam folks wherein the AOS folks would adopt this engine and spend the substantial sums needed ( $ 200,000-$ 400,000) to get it mechanically in good enough shape to be accepted in interchange, moved to the AOS property and cosmetically restored.

Very sadly Mr. Campbell had this fantasy that somehow, someone was going to come along and pay him 6 figures to buy this machine, take it off to steam nervanna and restore it to service.

So there it sits, now disconnected to the world, becoming more derelict by the month and with its owner ( far as I know) still existing in this unreal fantasy.

Obviously as a steam lover I would be beyond pleased if a white knight appeared out of nowhere, paid real money for the engine and somehow found a railroad that would let it run......and they lived happily thereafter. I love Disney endings, but in this case the odds are minus zero.

As so often happens the highest probability is that it will remain as is until the owner passes away and then the estate will sell it to the highest bidder, who will almost surely be a scrapper and away she'll go.

Sad but true.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:48 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:18 am
Posts: 155
The WABCO idea is nice, but keep in mind there was a certain PRR 2-10-0 at that plant back in the 80s on display until they decided they didn't want it. It now sits in Hamburg, New York. I don't think they will be receptive of it now, with the local hooligans around the WABCO area.


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:51 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1438
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
co614 wrote:
As so often happens the highest probability is that it will remain as is until the owner passes away and then the estate will sell it to the highest bidder, who will almost surely be a scrapper and away she'll go.
And the estate wants fast money, so they won't wait for any connecting track to be built, even if the land owner is willing.


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5254
Location: southeastern USA
cood101 wrote:
The WABCO idea is nice, but keep in mind there was a certain PRR 2-10-0 at that plant back in the 80s on display until they decided they didn't want it. It now sits in Hamburg, New York. I don't think they will be receptive of it now, with the local hooligans around the WABCO area.


Attempt at humor that, like many lately, have failed to pan out.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3731
Location: Maine
Careful Ross, you're treading thin ice with that last opening sentence.

Perhaps the heirs are likewise, part of the vision to save the locomotive? Perhaps they will make more sensible choices without destruction of the 643?
When you wax on the downward, depressed helix of emotion, you do nothing for the locomotive and only burden yourselves with premature grief.

What can you, or any other group do to preserve the big machine? Has anybody applied for or gotten permission to visit the site? When was the last time somebody had a lucid, sit down conference with the owner?

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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5254
Location: southeastern USA
Better yet, have a sit-down with the presumptive heirs and get your face and business card in front of them, with a promise of an offer and assistance in the confusing logistics of disposal.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:02 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8356
Location: Baltimore, MD
Dave wrote:
Better yet, have a sit-down with the presumptive heirs and get your face and business card in front of them, with a promise of an offer and assistance in the confusing logistics of disposal.


This presumes that the heirs do not also inherit the same infectious mentality that the thing is worth "millions of dollars," is their "ticket" to vast wealth, and that anyone who offers a lower figure is simply part of the "vast, [fill-in-the-blank] conspiracy" to rip them off that they've been well-trained to believe is out there.

"Antiques Roadshow" seldom shows you the contentious appraisals where people bring in their parent's/grandparents' "priceless" "Paul Revere candlesticks," "Lincoln autograph," "brooch owned by Queen Victoria," etc. and are told the reality that it's not worth anywhere near what they've been told by their families for decades, or that it's a fake. I'm still watching certain second- or third-generation rail collections where the heirs consider everything in terms of dollar value instead of intrinsic or historical value.


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:49 pm 

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 10:27 am
Posts: 167
Location: New Haven Ct area
Just wondering what is the status of the actual property the locomotive sits on right now? If the locomotive is sitting on property that isn't owned by the guy with the locomotive the person with the most leverage is the land owner.

Does the locomotive pay rent? If I had the money and was trying to buy the locomotive, I would just play dumb. I would have my lawyer write the land owner with an offer that was much greater than scrap. The offer would state that I saw the locomotive driving and research showed turned up his name as the land owner. This avoids the current owner feeling as he was spited by you going behind his back, but has the same affect as it tells the land owner it is worth more than scrap, someone is willing to pay it today, while he forwards it over to his tenant.

This letter would also prevent it from being scrapped if the owner dies, as the land owner knows it is worth more than scrap. Next, if the land owner wants it gone not only will he forward your offer to the actual owner urging him to take your offer but he will also be able to pressure the current owner to sell it to you or anyone else.

The only risk I see the strategy causing is if the current land owner tells the locomotives' owner I want the thing gone in 30 days or it is mine and I am selling it to this individual. A smart guy would take your money and run, a spiteful person may just cut up to spite everyone! So the strategy does come with some level of risk, but with out owning the property and the thing likely costing a fortune to move, the current owner really doesn't hold nearly as many cards as he thinks. What would the owner do if his rent overnight goes to $10K/month?


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5254
Location: southeastern USA
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Dave wrote:
Better yet, have a sit-down with the presumptive heirs and get your face and business card in front of them, with a promise of an offer and assistance in the confusing logistics of disposal.


This presumes that the heirs do not also inherit the same infectious mentality that the thing is worth "millions of dollars," is their "ticket" to vast wealth, and that anyone who offers a lower figure is simply part of the "vast, [fill-in-the-blank] conspiracy" to rip them off that they've been well-trained to believe is out there.


If that is the case, Sandy, you are no worse off by trying - if they are rational, you are much better off. What do you have to lose?

dave

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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:06 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1438
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
The land owner may already know of the alleged 6 figure asking price from the locomotive owner, and that may color his attitude.


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