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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:35 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:18 am
Posts: 155
Keep in mind there is also an L&N Big Erma Tender and an S4 is there as well. I know other S4s exist but I'm not too certain about the L&N tender.

Also, there is a Facebook page for the 643 and it looks like there are at least some gears turning to put another roof over it and stabilize it. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link it however.


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:19 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2447
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Jeff Lisowski wrote:
joe6167 wrote:
Check out Google's archived images of the site.

Link?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Munson+Ave.+Pittsburgh


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2438
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
cood101 wrote:
Keep in mind there is also an L&N Big Erma Tender and an S4 is there as well. I know other S4s exist but I'm not too certain about the L&N tender.

Also, there is a Facebook page for the 643 and it looks like there are at least some gears turning to put another roof over it and stabilize it. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link it however.


There are several L&N "Big Emma" tenders around. Based off the top of my head, the following are still around

1. MILW 261's aux
2. NKP 765's aux
3. VMT's aux (now loaned to 765)
4. C&O 614's aux
5. NKP 587's aux
6. BLE 643's aux
7. Tender to L&N 1984 at KRM
8. Tender to L&N 1963(?) at SERM in Duluth, GA

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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:14 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2076
Bobharbison wrote:
dinwitty wrote:
it would be a very big attention grabber if Pittsburgh had this engine running trips out from it.

There are ways to get it going, if the 765 troupe could do it, why not.



All we need is time, manpower and money.

Which of the three can you provide?


\
there was some server prob I couldnt get on for several days.

one person like me can't do it all, it takes a group.

You establish a society to assist with the engine and all the semantics behind it, thats how 765 works.

Thats what 643 needs, you get the word out "we're gonna do this, donate to friends of 643" and you coddle on.

Seems to work for Milw 261, 765 and a few other places, so get your face on, and game on.

...hya Glenn Cambell...


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:41 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:18 am
Posts: 155
I guess I'll link my picture of the 643 while I'm at it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/60938081@N06/8446484100/

It honestly in my opinion looks better than some steam locomotives I've seen in museums and such. I think people might think it is in worse condition then it is as it is "missing" components like the headlight and side rods. Those are in storage for a good reason and that is, if you have ever been in McKee's Rocks, PA, you know how bad that area is. Better to have them in storage then stolen in my opinion.

I'm still wondering if I could link the facebook group as well, as it ties into the organization to save it that people have mentioned above. They seem to at least be trying to stabilize the locomotive and secure property for a partial restoration.


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:08 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8354
Location: Baltimore, MD
dinwitty wrote:
You establish a society to assist with the engine and all the semantics behind it, thats how 765 works.

Thats what 643 needs, you get the word out "we're gonna do this, donate to friends of 643" and you coddle on.

Seems to work for Milw 261, 765 and a few other places, so get your face on, and game on.


And this gets nowhere without the sanction and permission of the artifact's owner.

Suppose I form a support group with plans to preserve your car--the car you might have been planning to give to your son or daughter at the age of 18. Sure, we'd like to see your car saved, but don't you deserve fair market value? Can you afford to just give it to us? Now, substitute "house" for "car" so we're dealing with more money and value. How about a business? Isn't that called a "hostile takeover"?

765, 261, et al had quasi-public owners. The closest parallel we have here is the Friends of the East Broad Top, and at one point I recall they were at sharp odds with one another because of differing views. One owns the property, one doesn't. Guess which one calls the shots? (Now, granted, this is a hunk of metal instead of a piece of real estate, so there's a bit of a difference--a property owner can assert things a rolling stock owner can't.)


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:10 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2447
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Attachment:
Mckees Rocks plats.jpg
Mckees Rocks plats.jpg [ 120.28 KiB | Viewed 1045 times ]


http://www2.county.allegheny.pa.us/Real ... 0225000002


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:11 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:12 pm
Posts: 95
Location: Boulder, CO
Haven't we had this dfiscussion before?

At least once?

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:39 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1045
Location: Youngstown, OH
What is your point Mike? If you don't want to discuss this topic then simply do not click on it.

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Steel Industry Preservationist, Narrow Gauge Railroader and ALCOhaulic


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:51 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:12 pm
Posts: 95
Location: Boulder, CO
Not a bad idea, Hot Metal. I'll take your advice.

And you can go on beating a dead horse.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:07 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3724
Location: Maine
Dinwitty's post is a bit unclear to me. Is he posting on behalf of Campbell, or making a suggestion to Campbell? If the former, it sounds like an invitation to get involved with the owner. If the latter, it means very little until custodial rights to the locomotive have been transferred to an organization.
As far as the constant rain of pessimism is concerned, disregard it. Pessimism hasn't solved any problems.

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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:54 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8354
Location: Baltimore, MD
Richard Glueck wrote:
Pessimism hasn't solved any problems.


Nor has optimism without lots of time, manpower and money, and a place for the results of the first three to be realized effectively. You can't (realistically) offer any of the above without a concerted plan, involving the loco's ownership and future.

And even with all of those, the future can still be quite murky and uncertain (CP 2816, PRR 1361, LNER 4472, et al).

Present something with more substance than Andy Hardy yelling "Hey, kids! Let's fix up a steam engine!", and we'll be optimistic. And maybe even write out checks, put on our work gear, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 95
Hello to Everyone on this section of the board. Here is some facts that need to be stated to clear up all questions about forming a group or how to save 643. I will stated I have had personal contact with Glenn in the past along with trying for well over a year to make something happen with 643 before giving up. The track situation was pointed out by several people for the last 3 years to Mr. Campbell about making a move while he still could and from railroad professionals calling him to say the CSX project was coming and nothing was done.

I'm writing this from my experience and I'm neither angry nor upset at the situation with 643. I feel in the end I gave it my best shot and the cards left on the table would have to be answered by Mr. Campbell himself.

First up is dealing with Glenn himself. As Ross and a few others pointed dealing with Glenn in person is a very challenging situation. He has a different view of what steam reality is today and is somewhat stuck in the steam past.

You have get past the hurdle with him that steam locomotive of today require large amounts of $$ to be put into the locomotive and that his locomotive no longer ready for service. On serveral times setting in person at the Eat & Park in McKees Rocks with him it was a issue for him to understand that you need the 15 year done before the FRA would give you a certified certifcate for your boiler. He very much feels that he can just put a fire in and light a match and away it goes.

Second hurdle is the ownership hurdle. I could never get a straight answer on who really owns the locomotive. Glenn in 1995 started a 501c3 called the Steel City Railway Historical Society and as shown in GuideStar it still active. So if you want to persue this situation you need to get Mr. Campbell to answer a few questions if this 501c3 is still active and if he has kept up with filing the 990 forms or a 990 Post Cards so the IRS does not yank his status. This still loops around if Glenn owes the locomotive or if the asset is considered to be owned by Steel City?

Third hurdle is making a deal with Glenn. He seems very willing up front to want to get the locomotive running and wants the help but never could get a solid commitment out of him on the situation. Again Ross pointed out the same a few posts back. Based on my experience if you do get a commitment out of him expect at the 11th hour for it to stall out or be dropped all together.

It has been a experience of a few of us on this board that he goes into states of hiding. What I mean by this he'll be really excited about someone working on 643 and then all of sudden he goes silent for 2 or 3 months.

Last but not least is where you going to run it? 643 is very very heavy locomotive. She needs a main line that has bridge ratings to take the heavy axle loadings. I remember coming up with a Bridge rating of E80 to make sure she did not cause damage to the railroad. 643 needs work and while it would be neat to run her she has another issue she is good for about 35 MPH to 40 MPH tops and this is based off of the speedo in the cab.


There is many other items I could add here but I see I have wrote enough. If you have any questions feel free to contact me offline.

Steven Harvey


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8354
Location: Baltimore, MD
nkpsteam779 wrote:
He very much feels that he can just put a fire in and light a match and away it goes.

=
Quote:
Andy Hardy yelling "Hey, kids! Let's fix up a steam engine!"


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 Post subject: Re: B$LE 643
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1604
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Folks, I've tried my best in past posts on this to be polite and kind as possible based upon my 4 years or so ago attempt to broker a deal to get this behemoth moved before it was landlocked as it now is.

Bottom line is that Mr. Campbell is absolutely out of touch with reality and until/unless he either has a real awakening or ownership passes to his estate upon his demise this old gal with sit there and rust until the boys with torches come to begin the process of transforming her into 2016 Toyotas!

Sad but true!!

Ross Rowland


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