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 Post subject: Why We Have Part 230
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:07 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2572
Location: Strasburg, PA
I received this in an email. The caption read, "A boiler from an Indian locomotive repatriated to the UK". Looks like a telltale hole is plugged, shame on them for not taking care of it...

Attachment:
indian boiler.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Why We Have Part 230
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:34 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1748
Location: Back in NE Ohio
Would that patchwork mess even be allowed to be considered for "restoration" in the U. S.? Looks like a future display of obsolete manufacturing and "maintenance" practices.


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 Post subject: Re: Why We Have Part 230
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:10 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2762
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
So we are looking at a boiler shell formed by welding together rolled sheets? They are not even full rings? Was that even a practice in the 19th century?

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 Post subject: Re: Why We Have Part 230
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:36 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:30 pm
Posts: 207
Nice! I have a guy that can do work like that if anyone is interested.


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 Post subject: Re: Why We Have Part 230
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:55 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm
Posts: 1228
softwerkslex wrote:
So we are looking at a boiler shell formed by welding together rolled sheets? They are not even full rings? Was that even a practice in the 19th century?


Since electric welding wasn't around in the 19th century the answer is no. Early in the 19th boilers were made from small plates riveted together because nobody rolled plates wide enough to make the rings. The John Bull's boiler is made this way.


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 Post subject: Re: Why We Have Part 230
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:58 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1789
Location: New Franklin, OH
Well, it's kinda shaped like a locomotive boiler. I'll give it that much. Was it in service like that? That's nightmare-scary.

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Eric Schlentner
Turner of Wrenches, Drawer of Things


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 Post subject: Re: Why We Have Part 230
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:06 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:35 pm
Posts: 406
Location: NJ
It looks like the welded sheets over the original boiler when they had a failure.

What a mess.


softwerkslex wrote:
So we are looking at a boiler shell formed by welding together rolled sheets? They are not even full rings? Was that even a practice in the 19th century?

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cv the civil E in NJ


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 Post subject: Re: Why We Have Part 230
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:35 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:16 am
Posts: 767
Since this is an international standard it must be better than US just like fillet welds and will be pushed thru the ASME committee shortly.

Robby Peartree


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 Post subject: Re: Why We Have Part 230
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:02 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:15 am
Posts: 585
Definitely don't like that pile of scrambled eggs over the throat sheet rivets. Wonder if there are any rivet heads below that plate or if they ground them flush.

Lets bring it out into the middle of nowhere, where the nearest house is 2 miles away and remotely pressure test this to 300 psi. Then we will see if it turns into shrapnel or a Mr Sprinkler... Personally I would be surprised if it surpassed 100 psi.


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 Post subject: Re: Why We Have Part 230
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6404
Location: southeastern USA
Our brothers in the UK are more than capable of replacing this with something the same size and much better. It would make a nice and very interesting display in front of the shed.

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 Post subject: Re: Why We Have Part 230
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:44 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:14 pm
Posts: 135
Looks like a good display for "what not to do"


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 Post subject: Re: Why We Have Part 230
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:03 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2295
Here are the relevant regulations in India, I don't have the technical knowledge to judge them:

https://dipp.gov.in/sites/default/files ... istory.htm

Reg. 80 deals with welding, not much there:

"Procedure for Welding

In order to maintain a high standard of workmanship in the practice of arc-welding to steel castings, the following general principles should be followed, but the precise technique will of necessity vary according to the circumstances.

Surface condition.- The surfaces of the steel, it is intended to weld should be cleaned and freed from all foreign matter, otherwise poor penetration and unsound weld metal may result.

The preparation for the welding of cracks should be of the U or V types. When the latter is used, the included angle should be not less than 70°C. Where cracks extend through the section of the casting, the choice between single and double preparation, U or V will be governed by (i) the thickness of the casting; (ii) the location of the defect. In double preparation, U or V the root of the U or V should be sufficiently open to ensure complete penetration."

I wonder if the pictured boiler was repaired like that long ago and survived in a scrap yard somewhere long after the locomotive had been scrapped. Hard to think about that thing pulling a train with thousands of people on the roof and hanging off the sides, pulling down through crowded shops near the tracks.


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 Post subject: Re: Why We Have Part 230
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:35 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2572
Location: Strasburg, PA
PMC wrote:
Surface condition.- The surfaces of the steel, it is intended to weld should be cleaned and freed from all foreign matter, otherwise poor penetration and unsound weld metal may result.
Being built in England, and repaired in India, seems to me that the entire boiler is made of "foreign matter".


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 Post subject: Re: Why We Have Part 230
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:36 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
PMC wrote:
Here are the relevant regulations in India, I don't have the technical knowledge to judge them:

https://dipp.gov.in/sites/default/files ... istory.htm

Reg. 80 deals with welding, not much there:

"Procedure for Welding

In order to maintain a high standard of workmanship in the practice of arc-welding to steel castings...


Interesting choice of words, for boiler work. What is getting lost in the translation?

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 Post subject: Re: Why We Have Part 230
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:55 pm
Posts: 988
Location: Warren, PA
Studying that thing just makes my head hurt.

I'm assuming that under that 'sheet' that looks permanently fixed over the firebox must be more stays, cleverly concealed so that you can't see them.... or is this some kind of oddball water circulating design?


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