Cut it up! Remember the argument about Steamtown? The United States is a big, expensive empty shell. The major part of what would convey a lesson of ocean travel is gone.

The amount of money suggested for the United States's re-purposing is criminal. That same money would ensure the safety of multiple other smaller vessels that are in far better condition, such as Olympia, tug Baltimore, and Grand Trunk carferry.

She's an architectural treasure, but is too large for operation by a group of dedicated "fans". I never saw a Zeppelin in flight, but I saw the "United States" in person. For that I'm grateful. If there was a way to preserve it intact, make it sumptuous and useful again, I'd love it. I've always felt she'd make a wonderful hotel/convention center, docked in the Hudson again. But oh, if you think a locomotive is expensive to preserve and restore, you haven't seen anything compared to a ship.
I'd say, perhaps, preserve her stacks, her foremast, allow paying visitors to tour her once more, document the hell out of her, and with a full heart, surrender her to history. She will require heavy repairs, replacement metal, and paint, forever. There isn't money enough to justify private preservation. I hate it being the truth, I really do.
Even the "Queen Mary" in Long Beach will, eventually, have to come to terms with a world of starving people, insufficient funds, and financial crooks. The world is changing that fast.

I am not in favor of scrapping anything historic. I don't know where you got such an idea. I am a realist. In today's economic situation, it will be difficult at best to find the moneys to keep the United States from being scrapped.

The National Parks System was set up in a time where there was money to tackle such an endeavor. Just like the railroads of the past were set up in a time when the rich had the money to put into such a business venture. If you were to try and set up Steamtown, the National Parks System or a railroad and others today, they would go no where. You have been watching the news about cuts in services, haven't you? And getting businesses to pony up, is a thing of the past. Have you seen how difficult it is to get light rail in place? Again, financing is the biggest stumbling block.

And where does public education factor into this discussion?

So, although I would be there to volunteer my services when needed, I fear that day will never come.

Later!
Mr. Ed

Agreed. Like it or not (and I, for one, do not), we live in a different time with different priorities than when we were younger; we also have a dismal economy and an abysmal political system (and matching political leadership, although I doubt one could apply terms like "leadership" or "system" to the mess we're stuck with now) which makes getting a project of this magnitude a herculean task at best (I've been through a complex overhaul of an aircraft carrier, so I know quite well what restoring or just stabilizing the United States will require; restoring a locomotive and running it is a walk in the park by comparison).

I, too, would love to see this ship and quite a few others preserved, but I also recognize the difference between dreams and harsh reality; I'd much prefer having time, effort, and other resources concentrated on projects where such resources will do the most good, rather than being spread too thin to accomplish anything worthwhile at all.

Just something to think about, especially if you may wonder why I would get angry at letting this go:

http://www2.mccombs.utexas.edu/faculty/ ... %20GNP.htm

The reality of this ship is that it is analogous to the history, (past and current) of our ship of state, then and now, being built here and having been the fastest, most advanced ship of it's kind in an era where passenger ships were emblematic of national pride. Arguably, it is the last, most advanced use of commercial steam power.

"The United States had the most powerful steam turbines of any merchant marine vessel, with a total power of 240,000 SHP (shaft horsepower) delivered to four 18-foot (5.5 m) diameter manganese-bronze propellers. This gave her the greatest power-to-weight ratio ever achieved in a commercial passenger liner, before or since. The ship was capable of steaming astern at over 20 knots (37 km/h; 23 mph), and could carry enough fuel and stores to steam non-stop for over 10,000 nautical miles (19,000 km; 12,000 mi) at a cruising speed of 35 knots (65 km/h; 40 mph)."

I can see of no way of easily saving either one although I did contribute to the ship fund. Outside of a federalization of this ship by the National Park Service ( the chances of which are nil) or a deep pocketed billionaire, Although it's a battle worth fighting, the odds are stacked against it's survival. The bottom line is probably tough to swallow but we cannot properly care for what we have most of the time, and what our forebears entrusted to us in our care receives little or no recognition or respect from the self absorbed. Oddly this and other battles are worth the fight despite the staggering odds against winning if only to have someone say this is just not right to throw history out the window...Once this ship is gone, there's no bringing it back. While many a historic ship lies un-salvageable wrecked fathoms beneath the sea, it is more than a bit ironic to me, this one is docked under the sun at port.
A picture is worth a thousand words. If this is not impressive then I do not know what is.

Ship preservation is about 100x harder than rail preservation. I watched with sadness in my heart when 20 years ago the former Coast Guard Cutter Mohawk left Wilmington. She was one of the few remaining Wilmington built ships around and was complete and already a museum. As the waterfront redevelopment began she was deemed an eyesore and kicked out of the city. She managed to survive moving from one location to another until she was sunk off the coast of Florida in recent years. She was tiny compared to the Big U. Lenfest's money would have saved the USS Olympia but ended up in a black hole.

I'm afraid that the Big U is doomed unless the boat ferry comes with a huge boatload of money (they've already spent a small boatload of money).

Not to stray off from the big U, but we are about to loose another piece of Maritime History, the Zuni-Tamaroa is being reefed..

People keep saying it's not worth it to save to the SSUS because she's in bad shape. She's not in bad shape at all. Tests done by NCL in the late 2000s showed that her hull is still between 95%-98% solid. That's astounding considering how long she's just be sitting. She looks bad because of some rust spots and being badly in need of a paint job, but that's it. Not preserving her because "she's in bad shape" is a completely unfounded reason.

When the cost of letting her rust away is $80,000 per month, it doesn't take a bad hull to scuttle this effort.

There are numerous empty piers and mooring locations all along the eastern seaboard. Could none of them have been acquired and dredged to provide a permanent home for the Big U? If I had been running that organization and knowing what the costs of maintaining the ship are, I would have been scouring the east coast to find a berthing location that we could PURCHASE, not rent, and have it dredged so that the ship could be moved there. Reduce the costs of existence as much as possible, and then the money that is raised can actually be used for productive purposes.

They should have done that as soon as they got that windfall contribution, but instead they sat on their hands writing $80,000 checks and letting the clock run out.

Yes, there are plenty of empty piers around, but the line of red tape and politics to use said piers is mind numbing. Then we get into dredging, the permits along are usually in the 5 digit numbers, not to mention the actual work and disposal. Possible? Yes, but I cannot see anyone pulling that off without some VERY deep pockets, and a viable plan, such as making the entire space into a casino, hotel, etc. All of which need a massive barge load of upfront cash.

I have my share of experience in this thanks to where I work.. I would have no issues standing by my opinion that it would NEVER happen in NYC, having been to that show.

I wonder if making a reef/diving attraction of it is still a possibility. I think it would be a slightly more attractive option than scrapping.

That may be the only way to get to see the ship for less than 5K!

It's exactly the same as the rail situation. Somebody's going to have to own a site for that ship to go to. And it's gonna have to come out of the water. Preferably freshwater, preferably not the rustbelt, but definitely has to be near a city if you want a volunteer corps. It's prohibitive to set up a facility like that for one ship, so it should have enough space to accommodate a bunch and pull em out of the water. You're gonna need hundreds of acres if you're going to be floating 1000 foot ships around. It would be like the IRM of large boats.

I don't want to see her cut up, but sinking the ship as a reef is just wrong when so much quality material remains for recycling.

One should take into account, she was built as an auxiliary transport/liner, to get thousands of troops to where they were required in a short period of time and safe from the submarine menace. Air transports killed that idea. Air liners kill the trans-Atlantic trade as well. As a maritime transport, somebody is going to have to come up with an excellent, practicable use, and quickly.

As a museum, hotel, casino, convention center, she might have possibilities. Get her into New York City, where her profile would enhance the skyline, and you might have a shot. Dock her next to the "Intrepid", you might have a better shot. Can the liner support itself and payback investment capital? Doubtful. She will always require structural rehabilitation, paint, and the list is ongoing.

I love the ship, but perhaps it's time to recognize limitations. Has anyone brought forth a short list of possible uses to make it all work indefinitely?