I meant "Mount Union standard gauge" and worded the question so as to avoid 0-6-0 #3.

And if the site is being sold piecemeal, they're not the same "site" until Mount Union and Orby trackage are owned by the same party.

Sheesh.

I think a state entity should own and restore the EBT. Could anybody put Mr. Kovolchik or Mr. Salone in touch with a state entity that could buy and restore the EBT?

Also, does anyone know if the surviving Mt. Union coal trestle is still repairable? It looked badly rusted to me last time I saw it.

Later,
Bob

Hi. You must be new around here. Don't worry, we don't bite, as a rule.

Do yourself a favor when you have some time to kill and search all through this forum for East Broad Top history. It will take a while, but you'll learn things.

Hopefully, among the things you'll learn are:
1) There were lengthy studies done in the late 1980s and early 1990s by both the federal Department of the Interior/National Park Service and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania with regards to the alternatives for acquiring and preserving the EBT:
2) Neither went anywhere because the owning family has been utterly unwilling, even for one millisecond, for whatever reasons, to entertain the idea of sale/transfer to a government entity.

"I think a state entity should own and restore the EBT. "

That will NOT happen.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is facing enormous looming fiscal problems and even if the Keystone State was the land of milk and honey, there is no conspicuous and cohesive voting constituency that will reward the politicians for making it a part of PHMC (which was cut back a bit a few years ago).

"Studies" are routinely done as a pretext to an already formed opinion.

I'm sorry to burst anybody's bubble, but the simple calculation that goes into the authorization or funding of anything is.

1.) Will this win me votes.
2.) Will this get me campaign contributions.
3.) Will this get me good press.


EBT fails on all three counts.

I know that in 94 the state had authorized 30 million dollars for the restoration of the EBT but it was never appropriated. At least they authorized it.

What do you suggest as far as the restoration of the EBT goes if state entities won't do it? They are the richest people around.

Mr. Salone now owns part of the EBT. He should contact a state entity about this.

I also forgot to say that people who don't have the spring 2005 issue of "Classic trains" magazine, there's an article about the EBT in there they should read.

Hi,

I may not recall exactly right, but I think it was in 1994 that the state of PA wanted to purchase the EBT. The sale price asked for was about 4 times what was offered based on the studies.

There was no willingness (IIRC) on the owner's part (Darned if I'll try to spell K... <grin>) to negotiate a lower price.

Doug vV

I don't think I would want to see EBT thrown into the political turmoil, sure, maybe apply for some grants for whatever, but don't let it into politics squandering, good or bad.

I have a hard time why they don't operate tho.

There's part of the rub.
Direct grants to a for-profit entity to improve their property's value with little to show for it--no "jobs created," no new industries, no trucks off the roads, etc.--aren't going to go over very well with the general public or "investigative journalists." Different money might be allocated if the goal is acquisition of the entire property for historic preservation, but so far that's been a "non-starter."
Now, the operation in Mount Union MIGHT qualify for Pa. Rail Freight Development grants--at the expense of "destroying the historic fabric" of the railroad to build a new shop/yard, for example.
And, sorry, if government money gets involved, political squabbling is an inevitable, unavoidable side effect or condition. Look at the recent/current squabbling over the proposed changes at Cass, long one of the most apolitical (from outward appearances) of state rail preservation projects.


What part of "we can't afford to keep running this at a loss" don't you understand?

I gave up on the EBT and was happy I got there in 2007, the minute I learned that Salone was involved. Experience teaches you to be suspicious of people whose name keeps popping up in litigation.

I have also given up on the the most unmentionable engine for the same reason, despite once having swung a water-soaked mallet against its replacement backhead.

Well, Mr. Salone is reportedly trying to apply both private and commercial funding to purchase the whole line up to Alvan or so I hear. But I do hope he preserves the Mt. Union yard, especially the coal trestle.

By the way, the last time I looked at the one surviving coal trestle at Mt. Union, it looked badly rusted in places. Can it still be restored to it's original appearance? Are there any experts on here that can allaborate on that?

Bob

I am 100 percent in agreement with Superheater's comments above. I have been interested in the EBT since my first visit in 1966, but I am very leery of its present state and prospects for all the reasons Superheater notes. I was dumb enough to volunteer on the unmentionable locomotive both at Altoona and in Scranton, driving over 100 miles to both locations. I've learned my lesson, offering my skills, such as they are, to the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania and the WW&F in Maine.

White Pass and Yukon are operating narrow gauge excursions. If EBT has been running as -for profit- they need to work on it, perhaps look for investors to give it a boost.

This is where museum style/volunteers non-profit style makes it work out.
All how you want to make it work. If this is not what the EBT owner looks for , I dunno, it will remain stagnant.
We read about other museum/lines here having their financial troubles, work them out and they start making -some- small progress, EBT however needs to find its D&RGW narrow gauge eastern nich and make it work.

While there are certainly some important differences (in the longer term slightly in favor of the EBT), I think I see some unfortunate commonalities in the mindsets of the owner EBT and the owner of the B&LE 2-10-4 #643. The future, as things publicly sit at present, do not look good; neither for the EBT nor the B&LE 643.

Anyone care to comment, counter, or expand on this thought?

Adam