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 Post subject: Bald.-West. Electric Lost In the Pa. Woods
PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8403
Location: Baltimore, MD
This photo turned up at RailPictures.net. I never realistically thought anyone would pull up a "missing" loco I hadn't heard of, especially so close to 1) my home and 2) several electric railway museum operations:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 787&nseq=3

near Mount Carmel, Pa. which is near Shamokin, Pottsville, etc. Anyone know the scoop on this and why it's still out there, rather than at Middletown & Hummelstown, Electric City, Rockhill, etc.? Wayne?

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 Post subject: Re: Bald.-West. Electric Lost In the Pa. Woods
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:34 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 am
Posts: 800
Location: NJ
If memory serves, that locomotive is at Locust Summit, which is the breaker that CNJ 113 last served at, while under breaker ownership. I haven't been out snooping in that area for well over 30 years, but I recall there were two of these electrics, and a few side dumps, abandoned there.


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 Post subject: Re: Bald.-West. Electric Lost In the Pa. Woods
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:18 am 

I can shed a little more light on the history of this locomotive.
It was known as the Locust Summit Electric Railroad founded in 1900's and was used as a railroad to switch out the coal breaker and coal yards there at Locust Summit. The rail line also went into down town Locust Summit as a from of freight/Passenger service for their employee at the breaker. there was also a Electric Railroad in Ashland, PA. at the same time in history.

All this information was told to me by the Late George W. Gerhart.

Len.

I copyed this out of a book I have on the Breaker printed from 1945.

In the late 1920s, the Philadelphia and Reading Coal and Iron Company began a series of improvements to the company that included the centralization of its 35 big collieries associated breakers. Under the direction of the newly appointed president of the company, Andrew J. Maloney, all of these operations were combined into two large processing plants, the Saint Nicholas, located between Shenandoah and Mahanoy City, and the Locust Summit, near Mount Carmel. At the time, the company employed 1,200 salaried workers and 15,000 day-rate and contract miners.

The Locust Summit Central Breaker was built at a cost of $4,000,0000 and went into operation in March of 1930. The massive railroad storage yard at the plant contained 42 sets of track and a large thaw shed was provided at the site to receive 24 car-loads at a time during the winter months. A Electric Railroad was built to supply service for switch movements through out the breaker. A pair of electrically operated rotary dumps overturned the largest of railroad cars delivering the raw coal to the two main conveyors, which carried the product to the top of the breaker at a rate of 1600 tons per hour. The internal process of the plant was divided into two wings, and employed several sets of large diameter, Chance Sand Cones for separating the coal from the rock and over 12,000 square feet of shaker decks for sizing. At its height, the breaker produced 15,000 tons per day, and operated three shifts, running the waste generated throughout the day back through he breaker at night to retrieve whatever available coal was left.

The breaker was distinguished as being the largest in the world when it was built. Its only rival was its sister operation, the Saint Nicholas. The declining coal market and the eventual bankruptcy of the P&R brought about the demise of the Locust Summit and in 1955, the breaker closed, laying off 1,700 men. A year later, the company changed its name to Reading Anthracite Company. It changed hands several times over the years, and the current owner renamed it the same name.

The Locust Summit Central Breaker was demolished in the fall and winter of 2002.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Bald.-West. Electric Lost In the Pa. Woods
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:58 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2359
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
Back when CNJ 113 was donated to Wilmington and Western a group of us went up to prepare her for movement and there were 2 electrics there. I think one was wrecked . The W&W was told they could have the 113 and any rail equipment they wanted. They cut up the wrecked unit and left the other one for the taking. I seem to remember that another museum was interested in it but we're talking about decades.

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Tom Gears
Wilmington, DE

If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Bald.-West. Electric Lost In the Pa. Woods
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:34 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1442
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
There are also some electric trolley side dump cars on top of the pile at St. Nicholas, Pa. I think they were idle as early as 1957. They may be about 250 volts D.C.


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 Post subject: Re: Bald.-West. Electric Lost In the Pa. Woods
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:06 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:34 pm
Posts: 633
Location: Union, IL
Interesting locomotive. I couldn't find anything about it in Strapac's book on Baldwin-Westinghouse electrics, but then that book really only covers interurban lines and not industrial operators. A photo of this type of locomotive can be found by going to http://digital.hagley.org and typing "80318_059" into the search box. You can zoom in on the photo by clicking on it. I'd guess that this is the only three-axle electric locomotive in the U.S. other than the B-1 at RRMofPA.

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Preserved North American Electric Railway Equipment News
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 Post subject: Re: Bald.-West. Electric Lost In the Pa. Woods
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 642
There were originally three such locos, BLW/Westinghouse 61130-32, built c.1930 as P&RC&I 305-307. They weighed around 30 tons. Some of the three had battery capability too, others were trolley only. I believe they were 250VDC. If there is an interest I can locate all the specs. All 3 were there when I shot them c.1967/70, but were derelict even then. Likely beyond restoration at this point, but I'd never discourage someone from trying.


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 Post subject: Re: Bald.-West. Electric Lost In the Pa. Woods
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:49 pm 

I copied the infomation off that site and here it is.
Len.

Title Electrified Mine Train
Description Caption: "Electric locomotive hauling cars filled with fresh mined coal to be cleaned and prepared for market at the Locust Summit breaker."
Corporate creator Philadelphia and Reading Coal and Iron Company

Subject Coal mining
Railroad locomotives

Estimated date 1930?
Original collection Philadelphia and Reading Coal and Iron Company photographs

Accession number 1980.318

Hagley ID 80318_059.tif
Rights Access to this item is provided for educational and research purposes only. The user assumes responsibility for obtaining permission from the copyright holder to publish or distribute this item.
Order prints To purchase a high resolution copy of this image contact the Hagley Library Pictorial Collections Department at pictorial@hagley.org or call 302-658-2400 ext 276. Please reference Hagley ID number when ordering.
Note Titles and descriptions used here created by the company in the 1930s.


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bald.-West. Electric Lost In the Pa. Woods
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:00 pm 

I saw this on Youtube.
Seashore Trolley Museum - ASL-100 Moves to Shop 9-17-05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT2o_X87JxM&feature=channel_page

Len.


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bald.-West. Electric Lost In the Pa. Woods
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2332
This motor is a pretty well-known piece, photos of it sitting there have been published a lot. The surprise is that Reading Anthracite did not scrap it when the the tore down the breaker and "cleaned up" the colliery site a couple of years ago. According to posts on another site, the Reading Tech group has been working on acquiring it, and even have some replacement parts for it.

Reading Anthracite owns quite a few goodies. In addition to the old St. Nick breaker, which is one of only two anthracite colliery sites still intact, they have a steam lokie dug out of a culm back in the early 2000's and they have the gear-driven electrics at the Oak Hill site. http://www.robertjohndavis.com/blog/?p=38

There are quite a few anthracite industry-related locomotives left, but precious few preserved. The two lokies at the Pioneer Tunnel in Ashland and the one at the Anthracite Museum in Taylor are the only two I am aware of that are stored indoors. But of course, you have a standard gauge one operating in Indiana (bringing her back to PA for a visit would be nice). There are lokies in various stages of "completeness" in Farmingdale, NJ, Easton, PA and Kneoble's Grove, PA. The motherlode of them is at the Ottinger Estate http://www.robertjohndavis.com/blog/?p=58, and the Shirey property has one or two as well. Then there are the much discussed Wanamie lokies, none of which are east of the Mississippi. I hear the infamous Shamokin dump cars are still around, but I have conflicting info on that. There are other electric and battery mine motors scattered about the regions, too.

The remains of coal jennies/jimmies, work cars and mantrip cars litter the anthracite regions to this day, along with ruins of other artifacts. A lot is still hanging out underground. If you are interested in the preservation of this sort of thing, visit http://www.undergroundminers.com/railprojects.html

What is interesting is that the small size of this equipment, combined with a preservation network unencumbered by some of the cucumbers that encumber railroad preservation, has lead to a number of very active groups in Ohio, PA and other northeast states to acquire, restore and operate some very historic industrial equipment. I dare say, this is one growth area of preservation, is often overlooked by those focused on the next 4-8-4 to run.


Oh, and once you get past all the industrial stuff in NEPA, you can go to town saving the hoppers, boxcars and milkcar still hanging around eastern PA.

And if that is not enough, there is the slate belt which has its own unique surprises.

Time of course, is the enemy. If I listed everything I know that is still lurking out there, I could write a longer list next to it of what has vanished in the past 20 years.


Rob

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The long memory is the most radical idea in this country. It is the loss of that long memory which deprives our people of that connective flow of thoughts and events that clarifies our vision, not of where we're going, but where we want to go. B. Phillips


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 Post subject: Re: Bald.-West. Electric Lost In the Pa. Woods
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:12 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2332
BTW - if you want to explore Reading Anthracite land for yourself, they sell 800 or so recreational passes each year that give you legal access to anything except active mining. Generally these are used by ATV'ers.

Rob

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The long memory is the most radical idea in this country. It is the loss of that long memory which deprives our people of that connective flow of thoughts and events that clarifies our vision, not of where we're going, but where we want to go. B. Phillips


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 Post subject: Re: Bald.-West. Electric Lost In the Pa. Woods
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:13 pm 

I've known of the LC&N locomotoves at the Ottinger Estate for years, I'm good friends with Mr. Robert Ottinger, Sr. His Father is the one who saved No. 425 and No. 58 from the scrappers torch back in the 1960's. Our family have been good friend with them for years.
I only live about 6 miles from there.

Len.


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bald.-West. Electric Lost In the Pa. Woods
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:19 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:04 am
Posts: 665
Location: Northeast Ohio
Is there anyone seriously looking into preserving this locomotive? It is certainly worthy of someone's attention. Its probably small enough to fit on a detachible trailer in one piece.


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 Post subject: Re: Bald.-West. Electric Lost In the Pa. Woods
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:31 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2332
Stationary Steam wrote:
Is there anyone seriously looking into preserving this locomotive? It is certainly worthy of someone's attention. Its probably small enough to fit on a detachible trailer in one piece.



Reading Tech is, according to posts on another site. A very suitable home. The coal company is not ready to part with it yet. At least someone has made the opening salvo to saving it.

Rob

_________________
The long memory is the most radical idea in this country. It is the loss of that long memory which deprives our people of that connective flow of thoughts and events that clarifies our vision, not of where we're going, but where we want to go. B. Phillips


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 Post subject: Re: Bald.-West. Electric Lost In the Pa. Woods
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:10 pm
Posts: 958
These locomotives were interesting machines. The center drivers were bald to allow taversing sharp curves. They could collect power from overhead wire through their pantographs and there was also a bracket on one side near the roof that supported a beam which contacted an outboard "third rail" mounted on structural supports when they operated under the breaker structure. This was required to clear the coal chutes. They also had batteries in the sloped hoods that allowed them to run out from under the wire for a short time.

There was a small fleet of low-side hopper cars riding on roller bearing arch bar trucks that were used to haul culm and rock out to the dumps. There was also a narrow gauge electric line that carried rock to a dump area.

Quite a bit of the overhead wire materials, including bracket arms and spring-loaded clips that held the trolley wire, wound up at the Magee Transportation Museum in Bloomsburg. Around 1973 or thereabouts, I was able to acquire a considerable quantity of overhead materials and tools, as well as components I removed from the three steeple-cabs, at scrap price. Most of the items were donated to Railways to Yesterday.


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