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 Post subject: Re: Gettysburg Railroad Partial Crownsheet failure 1995
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:56 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
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JimBoylan wrote:
Bobharbison wrote:
So, what would it take to make that modern day Galloping Goose thing FRA legal? Would it even be possible?
Apply for and receive a Waiver or make it Exempt by classifying it as MW {Maintenance of Way).


OK, sounds like this thing is razor blades now, but let's say somebody decided to build something along those lines. Assume actual railroad wheels, working brakes on all axles, etc. The goal would be to legally haul revenue passengers.

Would the waiver be required due to the buffer strength, or whatever the proper term for "this thing will crush like an empty beer can in a collision" is? Are there other factors that would require a waiver?

Back in 1986 I rode one of the BREL Railbuses in Canada. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_142
Obviously much better built, and probably a lot more solid frame, but they still felt a lot like a regular bus, more so than an RDC for example.

I don't know what regulations applied then (Obviously not under FRA, eh?) and if it had any exemptions. I do know we had to stop at at an grade railroad crossing since there was concern about it properly shunting the signal circuit.

This thing seemed like a nice update on the RDC concept, but never took off in North America.


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 Post subject: Re: Gettysburg Railroad Partial Crownsheet failure 1995
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:36 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
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Location: S.F. Bay Area
Bobharbison wrote:
So, what would it take to make that modern day Galloping Goose thing FRA legal? Would it even be possible?

Be off the general system, and have a maintenance and operation regime which is not unreasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Gettysburg Railroad Partial Crownsheet failure 1995
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:07 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
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Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
New Jersey Transit Camden - Trenton River Line and other similar passenger lines with imported equipment operate with F. R A. waivers and special conditions.


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 Post subject: Re: Gettysburg Railroad Partial Crownsheet failure 1995
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:28 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:55 pm
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Location: Warren, PA
Before anybody gets the impression that this was a 'good idea' that ran afoul of regulatory issues, I'm not particularly sure that was the case. I think there was also a good portion of performance issues as well, to say nothing about ride quality.

I'm reminded of the BBC 'light rail vehicle' TV spoof that consisted of a jaguar towing a train of various small camping trailers, all on rails, each of which was equipped for various purposes such as first class, dining, etc. It actually ran, at least for the spoof. The Jag also made a killer hirail vehicle... until you had to run it backwards and it overheated. Hmmm.

My impression, and impression only, was that the show-stopper is the collision protection and frame strength on 'new' equipment post 1999, which technically drips into this level of creativity. Recently there's been movement on that front to allow foreign-built DMU's to operate with some separation. There's probably also a host of other specific non-compliant issues here (brakes? sanders?) but getting past the frame strength on a 'new' passenger rail vehicle has been significant for a lot more attempts than this.

And the first rule of waivers is you have to appreciate the fact you are in violation without one, and apply for a waiver, and actually go through the effort. Having inspectors just show up first and defend with 'I'll get a waiver" never seems to go quite as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Gettysburg Railroad Partial Crownsheet failure 1995
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:39 am 
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Randy Gustafson wrote:
I'm reminded of the BBC 'light rail vehicle' TV spoof that consisted of a jaguar towing a train of various small camping trailers, all on rails, each of which was equipped for various purposes such as first class, dining, etc. It actually ran, at least for the spoof. The Jag also made a killer hirail vehicle... until you had to run it backwards and it overheated. Hmmm.


Randy--

That was the British automotive journal program "Top Gear," which in one format or another, has been running over there in the Isles since the 1970's. It now is being broadcasted on the BBC America network, so we here in the "Colonies," as the 3 presenters on the show like to call the US, can see all the car lunacy like the episode described above. I saw that episode--I thought they were completely mad, especially for inviting a number of safety inspectors from British Railways to ride in their "caravan" contraption and for inviting the chief editor of British Railway Journal to ride in their hi-rail sports car. It didn't end so well. Especially when they encountered the other train. I won't say anymore (of course it was all for fun, and funny it was).

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 Post subject: Re: Gettysburg Railroad Partial Crownsheet failure 1995
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:44 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:17 pm
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Location: Scranton, PA
Here ya go! (pictures from various sites, not my own)

http://www.salinafyi.com/marketplace/businesses/abilene-smoky-valley-railroad/features/4601/

Image

Certainly looks more substantial than its Pennsylvania counterpart. If I'm not mistaken, they crafted this in order to drive around a level crossing with the BNSF (?) that had been removed.

Dave Crosby

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 Post subject: Re: Gettysburg Railroad Partial Crownsheet failure 1995
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
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Location: Back in NE Ohio
Rainier Rails wrote:
Randy Gustafson wrote:
I'm reminded of the BBC 'light rail vehicle' TV spoof that consisted of a jaguar towing a train of various small camping trailers, all on rails, each of which was equipped for various purposes such as first class, dining, etc. It actually ran, at least for the spoof. The Jag also made a killer hirail vehicle... until you had to run it backwards and it overheated. Hmmm.


Randy--

That was the British automotive journal program "Top Gear," which in one format or another, has been running over there in the Isles since the 1970's. It now is being broadcasted on the BBC America network, so we here in the "Colonies," as the 3 presenters on the show like to call the US, can see all the car lunacy like the episode described above. I saw that episode--I thought they were completely mad, especially for inviting a number of safety inspectors from British Railways to ride in their "caravan" contraption and for inviting the chief editor of British Railway Journal to ride in their hi-rail sports car. It didn't end so well. Especially when they encountered the other train. I won't say anymore (of course it was all for fun, and funny it was).


Top Gear is really a comedy show based on the automotive business and auto enthusiasts. Just about everything they attempt to do (outside of fairly straight-forward tests of new cars) is deliberately designed to fail in a most spectacular and hilarious way. They also happen to do it with some of the best videography seen on contemporary TV anywhere (example one of that being the race between the replica A1 Tornado, '49 Jag, and motorcycle). It also happens to be one of the highest rated shows in BBC history. The History Channel version is a substantially inferior copy.


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 Post subject: Re: Gettysburg Railroad Partial Crownsheet failure 1995
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:24 pm 
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PaulWWoodring wrote:
Top Gear is really a comedy show based on the automotive business and auto enthusiasts. The History Channel version is a substantially inferior copy.


The BBC (superior) version I watch weekly. I skip over the History Channel (inferior) version completely. On a side note, I remember when the History Channel used to have a strong line up of actual historical programming. Unfortunately, the only 2 remaining programs really worth watching are "American Pickers" and "Modern Marvels."

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 Post subject: Re: Gettysburg Railroad Partial Crownsheet failure 1995
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:05 pm 
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Rainier Rails wrote:
Unfortunately, the only 2 remaining programs really worth watching are "American Pickers" and "Modern Marvels."

It's way off topic, but much of each of these shows is staged. I know people who've been on each and they've told me that they were told what to say, how to react, and in each case over objects they never were going to sell anyone...

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 Post subject: Re: Gettysburg Railroad Partial Crownsheet failure 1995
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:00 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Baltimore, MD
Years ago, I received an out-of-thin-air solicitation from a History Channel producer to help write a program or three for them for a series they were doing. After discussing a bit, I asked them to send me a sample of what they had in mind. They sent me an advance master of an episode that included that Metro-North PR guy going on and on about that "secret" siding and elevator under Grand Central Terminal for "FDR's limo" and the "armored rail car" still there.

I never replied to them.


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 Post subject: Re: Gettysburg Railroad Partial Crownsheet failure 1995
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:07 pm 
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p51 wrote:
It's way off topic, but much of each of these shows is staged. I know people who've been on each and they've told me that they were told what to say, how to react, and in each case over objects they never were going to sell anyone...


I'm not surprised. Reality TV is "reality" TV.

Anyway, back to railbuses: if and when any of the surviving Rio Grande Southern "Galloping Geese" operate, do they do so under a waiver from the FRA, or are they somehow "compliant" with current regulations? And how does that apply to railbuses preserved elsewhere?

Picture linked is of RGS #2 (more of a "railtruck" than a "railbus") at the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2424295

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