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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Big Boy selection?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:55 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:38 pm
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Location: New Jersey, Central
Who the heck cares how they decided!!!!!!! We might get to see a Big Boy in the next 5 years thundering down the tracks!!!!!!!! ROAD TRIP!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Big Boy selection?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:44 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
If I were choosing a Big Boy to restore, I'd probably first try to eliminate those who had:

1. been displayed outside most or all their retired lives in a wet climate
2. had to be trucked into their current display location
3. are "entombed" inside display buildings
4. still have their original boiler jacketing and asbestos lagging in place.
(All but #4014 and #4017 in Green Bay still have jacketing and lagging.)

In consideration of those factors, I'd probably rank #4014, #4018, and #4004 as 1, 2, and 3, respectively, and #4004 only because of its location.

#4014 is the obvious choice for #1.

#4018 was supposedly inspected for restoration in about 1998 when a so-called movie company raised funds to make a never-realized film and found to be in restorable condition. It still has its boiler jacket and lagging, but it is in a relatively dry climate.

#4004 has supposedly been inspected by experts- I think John from Wasatch Railroad Contractors (correct me if I'm wrong) was said to have inspected some or all of the bearings of #4004 and found them to have no damage from flooding.

Of course what also must be considered is which organizations would be willing to part with their Big Boy as well.

Another factor that might support the selection of #4014 over #4004 is that with two Big Boys in town, #4004 could be used as a handy parts source if necessary. I belive UP's relationship with the city of Cheyenne has allowed that to happen before in support of the operation of #3985.

Speculation is fun, however, that's all this thread has really added to the topic, unfortunately. I hope ultimately the full story of #4014's selection will come to light.

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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Big Boy selection?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:56 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:54 pm
Posts: 56
Here's a video.

Tim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmTr22rvldk


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Big Boy selection?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:12 pm 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
I remember reading an analysis from the NPS of the 4012 at Scraton and it states that they thought this was one of the better candidates for restoration of operation of any of the 4000s still around. Beats me where they got their info from.
People have a hard time differentiating between what 'looks good' and what is mechanically sound. Any engine would need to be taken apart and rebuilt. You have to look past the cosmetic issues and go with what is in the best mechanlical condition.
And if that is indeed 4014, then so be it. But don't assume it is just because it's in a good climate...

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Lee Bishop


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Big Boy selection?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:29 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:20 pm
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Quote:
People have a hard time differentiating between what 'looks good' and what is mechanically sound


#557 comes to mind. Reliable sources said the engine was in such good shape that it could be returned to service for $50,000. or less.........now, how far are they into the $700,000. rebuild?


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Big Boy selection?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:01 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:01 pm
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Location: Chattanooga
That YouTube video posted by UP probably gives us the best information to address why UP chose 4014. It further suggests that this loco was in the best condition which trumped closer 4000s.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Big Boy selection?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:21 pm 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
DavidKaplan wrote:
That YouTube video posted by UP probably gives us the best information to address why UP chose 4014. It further suggests that this loco was in the best condition which trumped closer 4000s.
I agree.
This reminds me of all the comments I've read over the years as to why 4449 was picked for the Freedom Train in the 70s, because someone (probably more than one guy, I'd bet) lubbed it and the 700 all the time they sat in that park near where they reside today in much better condition.

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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Big Boy selection?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:11 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
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One thing I have learned over the years is to always keep a few grains of salt in my pocket for reviews of what steam locomotive is or isn't a restoration candidate.

Know the person doing the assessment and know how far under her skirt they looked.

And understand that no matter how much any of us know, there's only a small fraction of the community that can truly make this kind of call.

Rob

PS: to make sure there are no misunderstandings among friends, I am not suggesting any person/loco on this thread is an issue. First of all, I wouldn't do that and second, I am not in that small percentage who would really know the deep mechanical details.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Big Boy selection?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:13 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm
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Location: Illinois
If UP selected the 4014 based on condition, not sure how they did that, as from every account I have heard they never inspected the other extant Big Boys.

I am still confused as to why they wouldn't have restored the Big Boy in Cheyenne. Yes, the one in Pomona may need slightly less work due to the climate, but any restoration of these engines will require a down-to-the-last-bolt teardown and re-build, regardless of the one chosen.

Chris.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Big Boy selection?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:55 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:29 am
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Location: Schuylkill County, PA
ctjacks wrote:
o why they wouldn't have restored the Big Boy in Cheyenne.


Probably because they like having it on display there.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Big Boy selection?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:09 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
Cheyenne has recently spent a great deal of money having the locomotive renovated for display. The park hasn't been the greatest location, and for a while, she was looking pretty sad. I think the city might look askance at having their investment go down the tubes, so to speak. None of us know about what her internals look like, or under what conditions she finished service.
It cost U.P. very little to tow their own locomotive to Cheyenne, and Pomona may have left it as a note on someone's desk, "If you want one, we've got one, and it's a beaut!"

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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Big Boy selection?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:14 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:12 am
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Location: cheyenne
The city of Cheyenne haven't spent a dime on it......the paint was donated the Sherman Hill model railroad club painted the south side last year and today we are putting number boards and a shield back on it ready for its 50th anniversary re dedication on Monday am......it needs a budget but doesn't get anything....

Mike Pannell


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Big Boy selection?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:27 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
I stand corrected!

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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Big Boy selection?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:00 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
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car57 wrote:
The city of Cheyenne haven't spent a dime on it......the paint was donated the Sherman Hill model railroad club painted the south side last year and today we are putting number boards and a shield back on it ready for its 50th anniversary re dedication on Monday am......it needs a budget but doesn't get anything....

Mike Pannell


I second that, Mike. As far back as I can remember, when 4004 got any attention at all, it was by volunteers, who supplied their own paint and materials. Seldom, if ever, did the same group paint it twice. They usually got a lot of guff from Parks Dept. leadership, enough to make them look at each other and say, "never again."

4004 still has it's lagging, too.

Next to the 4023, which is sitting on a hill miles from trackage in Omaha, 4004 would be the most difficult one to get out of it's present location and back to live rail. 4006 in St. Louis, conversely, would be the easiest.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Big Boy selection?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:42 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:09 am
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Lincoln Penn wrote:
Next to the 4023, which is sitting on a hill miles from trackage in Omaha, 4004 would be the most difficult one to get out of it's present location and back to live rail. 4006 in St. Louis, conversely, would be the easiest.


I volunteer at the Museum of Transportation in Kirkwood, MO. Yes, we do have a direct connection with Union Pacific (former Missouri Pacific) tracks, and, yes, UP #4006 is out in the open, but it still wouldn't be easy to get Big Boy out of the museum.

I have heard a few stories from volunteers and St. Louis County Park employees that over the time we have had Big Boy 4006, he has been derailed a couple of times. Big Boy (the locomotive) has never really been a problem, but his tender is a different story.

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- Diesels are boxcars with an engine, but steam is an iron horse.


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