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 Post subject: Re: Update on Utica & Mohawk Valley NRHS Equipment (9/6/2013
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:07 am
Posts: 588
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
With all due respect, this thread has devolved from a "can someone save these cars?' thread into a not-very-worthy "bash the Children's Museum" thread.

I would kindly suggest to Brother Webster that most of us are not very interested in the minutiae of how the current situation evolved; rather, we want to know IF saving these cars is 1) a worthy goal, and 2) realistically feasible. The malestrom surrounding this Museum is only important with regards to if the cars will be preserved and how, and/or what might be demanded of any potential saviors as a result (donation? auction? scrap value? etc.).


And what's wrong with keeping us posted on the issues involved when you rent space to store cars on someone elses proprery?

I find it useful and interesting

Bob H


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 Post subject: Re: Update on Utica & Mohawk Valley NRHS Equipment (9/6/2013
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:36 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 738
Not much seems to have changed since July, according to the February 11, 2015 Utica Observer Dispatch newspaper article titled DA: No wrongdoing at Children's Museum - There will be no criminal charges filed against the Children's Museum:
Quote:
The museum remains closed due to codes violations found in a May 19, 2014, inspection. The visit generated a 20-page list of issues that the museum is still working to remedy.

The article also describes "management practices at the children’s museum that opened the door for wrongdoing", which might be of interest to readers of RYPN's Theft at Kempton thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on Utica & Mohawk Valley NRHS Equipment (9/6/2013
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:38 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm
Posts: 274
What ever happened to the equipment?

CD


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 Post subject: Re: Update on Utica & Mohawk Valley NRHS Equipment (9/6/2013
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:54 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 738
CD, my understanding is that the equipment is still at the Utica Children's Museum and still in jeopardy. Here are some recent Utica Observer-Dispatch newspaper articles about the museum:

Judge sides with Children's Museum over ousted member - A judge ruled Wednesday in favor of the besieged Children's Museum over the removal of a board member who had raised questions about the museum's finances. (February 18, 2015)
Quote:
A judge ruled Wednesday in favor of the besieged Children’s Museum over the ouster of a board member who had raised questions about the museum’s finances. But after a recent report by the Oneida County District Attorney’s Office confirmed some issues with recordkeeping at the museum, the former board member – Chris Gordon – said he is happy to be off its Board of Directors.


Brown retiring, Children's Museum seeks new leader - Museum Executive Director Marlene Brown Brown, who announced plans to retire Thursday, has headed the museum for 15 years, but her tenure has been clouded by troubles in the last year. (March 12, 2015)
Quote:
The Children’s Museum’s troubles began about a year ago when a disgruntled former board member, Chris Gordon, began to speak publicly about issues he saw with museum management. It soon came to light that in 2011 Brown believed she had been given 60 percent ownership of the museum building at 311 Main St. The structure is valued at about $500,000. Brown and board members said the transfer of ownership was to compensate for back pay.

It later turned out that, unbeknownst to Brown or the board, the transfer never was completed formally. Other issues included unusual handling of grant funds and the fact that the museum had a large number of accounts at several banks.

Then, in May 2014, codes officers from the Utica Fire Department inspected the museum and found a lengthy list of violations. The museum hadn’t been inspected in at least 10 years. Utica Fire Chief Russ Brooks said the museum has done “an enormous amount of work and improvement to make themselves a safe place for children.”


Children's Museum to reopen Saturday - After nearly a year of combating codes violations and legal issues, The Children's Museum plans to reopen Saturday, just in time for Easter. (March 31, 2015)
Quote:
The Children’s Museum finally is reopening. It’s been nearly a year since the museum was shut down over a lengthy list of fire code violations......The museum will be open regularly from 9 a.m. to around 1 p.m. Tuesdays through Saturdays, Domser said.


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 Post subject: Re: Update on Utica & Mohawk Valley NRHS Equipment (9/6/2013
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:05 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:15 am
Posts: 569
So what is the latest on the museum and the RR equipment? With the recent discussion on the update about the locomotive that was squashed between a runaway hopper and a stair well at the Utica Station, I did a google map look around and notice the RS-x and coach are still next to the Children's Museum (not sure when the image was taken, but it was after the crash as the steam locomotive is on the other side of the pedestrian walkway).

Has the Children's Museum rescued itself, have they decided to keep the equipment, or ????

Thanks,
Rich C.


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 Post subject: Re: Update on Utica & Mohawk Valley NRHS Equipment (9/6/2013
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:45 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 738
According to issue #419 (September 2019) of Tower Topics, the Children's Museum building is for sale. The U&MV's equipment has to be moved but the chapter does not have the money to do that. The rail equipment is being listed for sale, but the chapter is willing to donate the cars and locomotive to a historical group that can move them.

The chapter also has moved its New York Central Mohawk Division CTC Boards out of the 4th floor of the Children's Museum; these boards will be moved to the Rochester and Genesee Valley Museum in Rush, NY.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on Utica & Mohawk Valley NRHS Equipment (9/6/2013
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:49 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 738
From an August 22, 2019 article from Utica's WKTV television news:
Quote:
On July 18th, the president of the Utica/Mohawk Valley chapter of the National Railway Historical Society was contacted by the Children's Museum and asked to move the locomotive outside the museum, as the building was in the process of being sold and undergoing the necessary approvals. President Harry Lenz expects moving the locomotive to cost $50,000-$60,000.

Link: WKTV.com - Children's Museum building in process of being sold; museum likely to move


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 Post subject: Re: Update on Utica & Mohawk Valley NRHS Equipment (9/6/2013
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:57 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 738
crij wrote:
Has the Children's Museum rescued itself, have they decided to keep the equipment, or ????

From a December 9, 2018 editorial in the Utica Observer-Dispatch newspaper:
Quote:
[Museum President Marlene Brown] retired in March 2015 and the museum re-opened a month later. That August, Elizabeth Slocum Brando became interim executive director, but she left the following July when her contract expired. Brando was a bright spot and worked diligently with the museum’s board to turn things around. Helen Schwartz, an experienced exhibition developer and museum consultant who has worked at the Strong National Museum of Play in Rochester, later assumed the leadership role as board president and kept the wheels turning. Volunteers, too, have been a blessing.

Things improved. More good news came one year ago when it was announced that the museum had agreed to a managerial contract with Kids Oneida. By doing so, Kids Oneida — conveniently located directly across the street — began providing “operational and administrative support, development and marketing support and strategic planning” to the museum.

A year later, Kids Oneida executive director Steve Bulger says things are great.

"We're extremely happy," said Bulger. "Attendance numbers are up, sponorships have increased and we have many new exhibits. We couldn't be happier 12 months later."
and
Quote:
As for community chatter about the possible sale of the museum's building, Bulger did not deny that people are looking.

"People are definitely interested in purchasing it as well as the Kids Oneida building (the old Utica Daily Press)," he said, citing the development taking place in the Bagg's Square area, making these locations particularly attractive.

Link to full article: Children's Museum in a happy place


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 Post subject: Re: Update on Utica & Mohawk Valley NRHS Equipment (9/6/2013
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:16 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 738
Here's how things stand as of March 2020:
Quote:
UTICA — The Utica Children's Museum is getting a new home.

ICAN, the nonprofit organization that manages the museum, announced Wednesday the museum's current location at 311 Main St. is being sold as part of plans to relocate the museum to a new state-of-the-art family family center on Memorial Parkway.
Link to the March 5, 2020 story in the Observer Dispatch newspaper:
Utica Children’s Museum to relocate; building sold

Page 1 of the March 2020 issue of Tower Topics, the U&MV chapter newsletter, says:
Quote:
On July 18, 2019, the Chapter was told to plan on removing our display should the Museum relocate. We had little information to work with as the Museum had a confidentiality agreement. We did move the 4th floor display including our New York Central Mohawk Division dispatchers boards. They are now at the Rochester & Genesee Valley Rail Museum in Rush, New York.

The problem with relocating the rail equipment is the cost. The Chapter has several leads for groups wanting the display, but like us don't have the money to move it. An out of state party wants the dining car and caboose and will pay for the removal. The locomotive may remain and get scrapped in place.

We have asked the Museum and buyer to contribute but they have declined our proposal. The Museum had scheduled a news conference in early March so by the time of our next meeting, there may be more to talk about.
Page 3 has some details about the proposal from the out-of-state party:
Quote:
His proposal is to remove the ex-Santa Fe dining car and PRR Caboose from the Children's Museum's grounds at no cost to the Chapter. He proposes to scrap our display locomotive, however, and share any profits from its scrapping with us.


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 Post subject: Re: Update on Utica & Mohawk Valley NRHS Equipment (9/6/2013
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:55 pm
Posts: 787
Location: Warren, PA
I'm not sure what shape it's in NOW, but this is the locomotive in question... if those are equally spaced axles, that makes it an RSC-2 I think.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=137454

That's really a museum unit, deserves better than scrap, but you can't take it out in a pickup. It's not far from live rail though. That photo description says there is no prime mover left in it so the scrap value is probably reduced by about 30%. If it were a 251-Alco somebody would buy it just for the engine.


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 Post subject: Re: Update on Utica & Mohawk Valley NRHS Equipment (9/6/2013
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:09 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 738
Randy Gustafson wrote:
I'm not sure what shape it's in NOW, but this is the locomotive in question... if those are equally spaced axles, that makes it an RSC-2 I think.

Correct. It was SAL, then SCL, then Florida Power & Light, then Adirondack Railway (where it remained in FP&L orange paint.)

After the Adirondack Railway went bankrupt, the unit was bought by the Delaware Otsego/ Susquehanna and used as a parts source. The Susquehanna then donated it to the U&MV chapter. The U&MV painted it Adirondack green and moved it onto the Children's Museum grounds.
Randy Gustafson wrote:
That's really a museum unit, deserves better than scrap, but you can't take it out in a pickup. It's not far from live rail though. That photo description says there is no prime mover left in it so the scrap value is probably reduced by about 30%.
My (very fuzzy) recollection is that the hood doors are welded shut. I presume that all other useful parts (generator, traction motors, etc.) were removed by the NYSW since they were still operating RS3s at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Update on Utica & Mohawk Valley NRHS Equipment (9/6/2013
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:02 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1258
From the "Alco Diesel Electric and Field Service" closed facebook group: "Still has the 244 block with crank and the main gen in it. From what I've seen all the heads are gone, not sure in the pistons and liners are still in it." Originally Seaboard Air Line 1511, later Florida Power and Light. #25:


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Last edited by PMC on Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Update on Utica & Mohawk Valley NRHS Equipment (9/6/2013
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:14 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 738
A recent ebay auction of a slide of it in the NYSW's Utica yard on July 30, 1984:
Ebay #193362276654

Direct link to photo: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/qRQAAOSwWp9eWRWb/s-l1600.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Update on Utica & Mohawk Valley NRHS Equipment (9/6/2013
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:19 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 738
The RSC-2 will be scrapped on site according to the latest issue of Tower Topics, the U&MV chapter's newsletter.

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Chris Webster


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 Post subject: Re: Update on Utica & Mohawk Valley NRHS Equipment (9/6/2013
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:14 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:15 pm
Posts: 152
Location: At large
A Go-Fund-Me has been set up to try to get the RSC2 moved and saved. The Diner and Caboose are safe and spoken for and will be moved soon.

https://gf.me/u/y9k4td

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Matt Giardino
ALCO Historical & Technical Society


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