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 Post subject: Re: PRR P54 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:07 am
Posts: 604
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Cjbdiesel wrote:
#450 is in storage out of the public eye. It still wears W&W Phase 2 scheme (See SW1 #114). I can't speak for the mechanical department or head office but there has been a small rumor of restoring the coach as an extra (even though we use DLW 571 as an extra).


That paint scheme was never applied to 114 - the 450 wears a much, much darker blue, with gray trim and lettering - no other colors were used.

#114 wears a similar, but lighter, blue to the Boonton coaches, with white bands and gold striping and lettering.

The scheme applied to the 442 and 450 along with the ALCO #3 (also known as D3) around 1990, was done as an experimental for entire fleet, particularly for the Boontons' forthcoming paint job (they were still blue and yellow at the time).... obviously, it didn't win. #114 was OOS and still in Ocean City Western Red and White at the time.

The D3 and the 2 MP54's were used as a matching train set for weekly summer Saturday Hockessin Service during the diesel only 1991 season, shortly after the Hockessin Center trackage rebuild was completed.

After that season, the coaches were then relegated to extra capacity service - often used for the Wild West Trains back then, which warranted 6 coaches, plus cabooses. 1,000+ people on 2 trips was not out of the ordinary, regardless of how hot it was.

IMO they would be smart to restore the 450 as a in service coach that could be converted to a dining car (as they do with the Boontons), to run with the PRSL/Parlor car as a charter service consist, since that would give them 3 cars with closed vestibules - ie; safe transport between cars for those using buffet service often offered by their caterer.

I realize, the car did suffer some damage from vandals (who also set fire to the 442, which in part, lead to its conversion to an open car), but they have a strong charter base to warrant the work. Indoor storage is still the issue.




Glad to hear the Walkersville Southern is heading for 4 Long Island Cars in service. I had seen the one converted to a dining car, but wasn't aware there were also two coaches in service. I've watched the progress on the current coach spoken of. Lots of work done indeed!


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 Post subject: Re: PRR P54 Coaches
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:04 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:17 pm
Posts: 76
junior wrote:
Cjbdiesel wrote:
#450 is in storage out of the public eye. It still wears W&W Phase 2 scheme (See SW1 #114). I can't speak for the mechanical department or head office but there has been a small rumor of restoring the coach as an extra (even though we use DLW 571 as an extra).


That paint scheme was never applied to 114 - the 450 wears a much, much darker blue, with gray trim and lettering - no other colors were used.

#114 wears a similar, but lighter, blue to the Boonton coaches, with white bands and gold striping and lettering.

The scheme applied to the 442 and 450 along with the ALCO #3 (also known as D3) around 1990, was done as an experimental for entire fleet, particularly for the Boontons' forthcoming paint job (they were still blue and yellow at the time).... obviously, it didn't win. #114 was OOS and still in Ocean City Western Red and White at the time.

The D3 and the 2 MP54's were used as a matching train set for weekly summer Saturday Hockessin Service during the diesel only 1991 season, shortly after the Hockessin Center trackage rebuild was completed.

After that season, the coaches were then relegated to extra capacity service - often used for the Wild West Trains back then, which warranted 6 coaches, plus cabooses. 1,000+ people on 2 trips was not out of the ordinary, regardless of how hot it was.

IMO they would be smart to restore the 450 as a in service coach that could be converted to a dining car (as they do with the Boontons), to run with the PRSL/Parlor car as a charter service consist, since that would give them 3 cars with closed vestibules - ie; safe transport between cars for those using buffet service often offered by their caterer.

I realize, the car did suffer some damage from vandals (who also set fire to the 442, which in part, lead to its conversion to an open car), but they have a strong charter base to warrant the work. Indoor storage is still the issue.




Glad to hear the Walkersville Southern is heading for 4 Long Island Cars in service. I had seen the one converted to a dining car, but wasn't aware there were also two coaches in service. I've watched the progress on the current coach spoken of. Lots of work done indeed!

The reference to 114 is the closest thing you can publicly see of the paint scheme anymore. Ever since 450's paint began to peel off, it revealed a much darker, stained primer.

It would be a smart idea to do that but the problem now is getting it out of where it is currently. Not in the best of spots currently...

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 Post subject: Re: PRR P54 Coaches
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:43 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:25 pm
Posts: 211
The Wikipedia page at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_MP54

lists surviving PRR MP54s. One of them is LIRR combine 1398 "preserved as the Port Jefferson Station/Terryville Chamber of Commerce office in Port Jefferson Station, New York."

Does anyone know of any other MP54 combines still in existence, or is this the last one?


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 Post subject: Re: PRR P54 Coaches
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3501
Location: Maine
I believe this is the final example of a P54 combine. There are no MP54 combine of LIRR heritage still around.

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 Post subject: Re: PRR P54 Coaches
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:44 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:25 pm
Posts: 211
Richard: Thanks for your reply. Do you know of P54 or MP54 combines from any other lines that might still exist, or is this one in New York the very last of all of them?


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 Post subject: Re: PRR P54 Coaches
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:50 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3501
Location: Maine
There are other LIRR P54 coaches around, but they are scattered in the Ohio region, I believe. The one in best repair, I believe, is back in Oyster Bay, at the OBRM (find them online). This was rescued from the Knox & Kane sell-off. The last MP54 RPO and combine were once at RMLI, where through no fault of the museum they deteriorated to scale, became a serious danger, and had to be scrapped. This has been the fate of almost every MP54 and P54 which people tried to save as coaches or stores, or museum articles. There is an MP54 coach in Kennebunkport, Me., used to store trolley parts, but the underside is all but gone. In nearly every case where a P54 was saved for service or some good hearted attempt at preservation, you'll see severe sill rusting. A P54 truck is used as a shop truck at Steamtown, and is a museum article in its own right, being made of pressed steel and riveted together.

Okay, so why did the cars deteriorate so badly after serving nearly 60 years of service? I've been told the concrete floor absorbed all kinds of moisture. Out of service, the lack of heating allowed the moisture to be retained and "poof", no car. Another reason is the windows. Originally built to slide open (which they rarely did in service), water channeled down the sills and once again, without heating, they were eaten up as rust.

If any P54's or MP54's remain to be preserved or restored, most likely they will need to be under a roof and kept dry after rust remediation.

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Last edited by Richard Glueck on Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PRR P54 Coaches
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:37 pm
Posts: 210
There was indeed an MP-54 at RRMPa from the "Paoli Local" until about 2002 when it was scrapped. It was in bad condition when acquired by the Museum in 1976 and just got worse as the years went on, sitting outside in the elements of the Yard soaking in the rain and snow. Moreover it was contaminated with PCB oil and would have been cost-prohibitive to restore let alone remediate (estimates were in excess of $1M!), so a curatorial decision was made to dismantle the unit, salvaging only usable parts.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR P54 Coaches
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:29 am
Posts: 45
There are 4 MP54 coaches on the Bel Del(BRW sub)north west NJ,one is still in septa
paint but they are in very bad shape as well,I did see the URHS had them listed for sale
but may only be worth scrap


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 Post subject: Re: PRR P54 Coaches
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3501
Location: Maine
Check out this thread on another board.

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 63&t=43830

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 Post subject: Re: PRR P54 Coaches
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:41 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:25 pm
Posts: 211
On this same general topic, the Ashtabula, Carson & Jefferson Railroad, which shut down its excursion operation last year, had two such coaches and the Carthage, Knightstown & Shirley Railroad (shut down in 2013) had one. Is there any word on the fate of the coaches on these lines? I read the latter's seller was hoping to sell the entire operation intact so it could be restarted but that seems very unlikely.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR P54 Coaches
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:25 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:56 am
Posts: 333
Location: Northern California
I rode the PRR MP-54s many times in service in be late 1960s and early 1970s. They were rusted out then. You could see through the holes in the side sheets below the window sill. When the Metroliners came along, they started sucking the windows out of the cars that had wooden sash when they passed at speed. But I can not think of anything more fun to ride than an MP-54. I was at Seashore when the Long Island MP-54 arrived there. It had no rust and good paint. What a difference.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR P54 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:51 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2388
Location: S.F. Bay Area
How heavy is an MP-54?


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 Post subject: Re: PRR P54 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:14 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 am
Posts: 399
Location: Port Jefferson, NY (LIRR MP 57.5)
Tim Moriarty wrote:
The Wikipedia page at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_MP54

lists surviving PRR MP54s. One of them is LIRR combine 1398 "preserved as the Port Jefferson Station/Terryville Chamber of Commerce office in Port Jefferson Station, New York."

Does anyone know of any other MP54 combines still in existence, or is this the last one?


Here are some pictures of LIRR combine 1398, taken Sunday 3/15/15. As discussed above, there is some serious rust bubbling up under the paint above all the sills.

-Philip Marshall


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 Post subject: Re: PRR P54 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3501
Location: Maine
It's in better shape than most, and frankly, I'm surprised to see a combine still exists!

What does the underside look like?

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 Post subject: Re: PRR P54 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 am
Posts: 399
Location: Port Jefferson, NY (LIRR MP 57.5)
I didn't get a close look at the underside so I can't say without a second visit. (It's only a mile or so from my house so that wouldn't be a big deal.)

As you can see from the third picture, the car does appear to have heat and air conditioning. Perhaps that's what has saved it?

-Philip Marshall


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