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 Post subject: PRR T1 Steam Locomotive Trust
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:30 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:29 am
Posts: 3
Check this out, new PRR T1 build!!!

https://sites.google.com/site/prrt1stea ... trust/home


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 Post subject: Re: PRR T1 Steam Locomotive Trust
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:40 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:37 am
Posts: 398
Location: Missoula MT
There's a fellow in the steam traction community that is working toward creating a Case 150, of which 10 (IIRC) were built and the only surviving artifact is a boiler shell. The key is that he has enough of a drawing set that a direction is set.

If this group has the drawings, then that will be an immense head start. Suspect that the frame and running gear would be far easier to replicate than if they were working with an 4 driving axle design.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT


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 Post subject: Re: PRR T1 Steam Locomotive Trust
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 957
Location: Chicago USA
Huh? Why? Are you thinking there are two small driving units? This is not an articulated locomotive. There is one enormous frame for 4 driving axles with both sets of cylinders and many other elements cast all in one piece. GSC said they could cast everything in one piece but the engineer and fireman.

I do believe that it would make sense to divide it up into smaller units and take advantage of today's superior welding techniques to join them. One would probably have to include areas specially designed for joining. Probably still need a giant annealing furnace.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: PRR T1 Steam Locomotive Trust
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:07 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:58 am
Posts: 55
Location: South Jersey
Where 'ya gonna run it? 45 mph speed limit senarios would be a complete travesty to an engine like that.

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 Post subject: Re: PRR T1 Steam Locomotive Trust
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:33 pm 

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:27 am
Posts: 151
Location: New Haven Ct area
mikefrommontana wrote:
There's a fellow in the steam traction community that is working toward creating a Case 150, of which 10 (IIRC) were built and the only surviving artifact is a boiler shell. The key is that he has enough of a drawing set that a direction is set.

If this group has the drawings, then that will be an immense head start. Suspect that the frame and running gear would be far easier to replicate than if they were working with an 4 driving axle design.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT


Michael,

Believe it or not a T1 was just built in the USA after over 18,000hrs of construction the only thing is that it happened to be built in 1" to the foot scale. http://www.palivesteamers.org/pubs/gazette/2012_7-8.pdf Here's some photos of her construction. http://www.physics.upenn.edu/shop/edst1.html. I had the privilege of meeting and speaking with Ed years ago probably back around 2000 time frame and the locomotive was quite the sight to see.

The sad thing is with the loss of Ed so went some of the most intimate knowledge of that locomotive. It has been several years since I spoke with Ed but I seem to recall Ed telling me how back in the 1950's he became close friends with the engineer who designed the locomotive, and even back then he was collecting all sorts of notes and drawings from the guy who designed the locomotive. Fortunately however it appears a complete set of original drawings also exists at the Pennsylvania Historical
and Museum Commission in Harrisburg so on the documentation side it shouldn't be much of an issue.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR T1 Steam Locomotive Trust
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:36 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:45 pm
Posts: 225
PRR5550 wrote:


All I see is a simple website built using the free Google Sites service.

Also, welcome to RYPN.

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 Post subject: Re: PRR T1 Steam Locomotive Trust
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:06 am
Posts: 383
Location: NE PA
Good luck to this organization. I do not see any info on the donation being a tax deductible donation, or are they a for profit group?

Mike Tillger


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 Post subject: Re: PRR T1 Steam Locomotive Trust
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:19 am
Posts: 4212
Location: southeastern USA
No question a T1 (or just about any locomotive) can be built - easier now than in 1940.

I'm a bit uneasy by the "we' used frequently not being defined, and the lack of specifics about its potential use and committed support from mainline railroads in the web site.

It's an interesting idea, but without adequate information to convince me that this stands a chance of being a reality and not just a foamy dream I have to be somewhat skeptical.

Please let us know if you are tax exempt, who is on your board of directors and what their qualifications are, and what railroads have expressed interest in hosting the new T1 if it is built.

By the way, the last new standard gage steam locomotive built in the USA is about a year old. It's running in Pennsylvania.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: PRR T1 Steam Locomotive Trust
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:56 am
Posts: 1312
Location: Roanoke Va.
Who? Where will it run? Why? There are plenty of restorations by established organizations going on right now. If you want to set a speed record, it would be cheaper to throw a couple of extra million at 611... Sorry, my foam sensors are buzzing from this

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 Post subject: Re: PRR T1 Steam Locomotive Trust
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:26 am
Posts: 2986
Location: Maine
I have to say, she's a beautiful locomotive design, but too long to run anywhere track might be available. One might have been saved, but some things you just have to let go. If you wanted to construct a NYC Hudson, money might come forth. There are locomotives, including one K4s, that really could use the money squandered on a long rigid loco like this.
Others have said it; I want to see 501c3 status, who is running the show, where it will run, what the value is for re-creating the loco.
My personal feeling is, you money would be better invested in refurbishing the 4-6-4T at Steamtown, NKP 759, MEC 470, PRR 4483, PRR 1361, N&W 1218, CNR 6060, CB&Q 4000, AT&SF 2926 or 5000, NYC 3001, .... need I go on?

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 Post subject: Re: PRR T1 Steam Locomotive Trust
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:11 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:17 am
Posts: 64
Location: walton, ky
When is a rich benefactor going to step forward and fund one of these dream locomotives? I mean, there have to be a few very rich folks willing to front the cash to build this, or a niagara, or whatever locomotive their heart desires.

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: PRR T1 Steam Locomotive Trust
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:11 pm
Posts: 141
Location: North Carolina USA
This looks like a sketch of vague outlines without the identification of a presumptive "we"..who exactly is we? Another comment has to do with putting the cart before the horse..no committee before asking for contributions. Unfortunately, whether this is applicable or not, this seems to be a case of a ghost organisation in search of an organisation..lol which alerts my radar for b.s ..The simple facts more fleshed out is in dire need and it could be there are few, or some that would make this effort ( cough) somewhat juvenile appearing to some of us who have done any sort of project. Looks like an idea in search of flesh..a worthy one..no doubt..however..this does not bode well in this writers book.Perhaps a case of more foam than steam.
The other issue is with the also presumptive contractor ( whom I respect) deals primarily with small scale ride on park engines,and this is a ridiculously enormous stretch in my book unless someone can convince me otherwise..let alone dealing with the original design flaws..and the lack of facilities capable of huge bed casting..the whole thing seems...well..half baked.


Last edited by Bruce Duensing on Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PRR T1 Steam Locomotive Trust
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:09 am
Posts: 25
I'm a little uncertain about this.

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of new steam locomotives being built today to keep steam excursions alive and well into the future, but, personally, I think starting with attempting to built a PRR T1 is asking a bit much.

In my opinion, I think it would be more sensible to start with a locomotive that was also very famous, but is smaller than a T1 and would probably be easier to build. The locomotive I am referring to is a New York Central J3A 4-6-4 (and it could even be shrouded like they were for the 20th Century Limited). The J3As were very well built locomotives, and they were never speed tested. I think they could easily exceed 120 mph while pulling a train.

Again, I am no expert on steam locomotives (to any stretch of the imagination), but I think it would be easier to build a tried-and-true 4-6-4 than to try and build a still relatively unknown duplex-design 4-4-4-4.

I would be happy if a T1 was to be built, but I think it would be smarter to start small and work your way up (especially considering this is something we haven't really done for well over 50 years). Also, I'd just love to see a NYC J3A 4-6-4 in person (since, like the PRR T1, none were saved).

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- Diesels are boxcars with an engine, but steam is an iron horse.


Last edited by SteamEnthusiast4000 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PRR T1 Steam Locomotive Trust
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:42 pm
Posts: 1830
If only we could find an existing steam locomotive someplace that needed restored, rather than building one from scratch. Maybe if you looked hard enough, you could even find a PRR engine (cough, K4, cough).

Yeah, I know, T1's are cool and yes, they built a new loco from scratch in England but I am of the opinion that the PRR T1 was not popular enough to come anywhere close to raising the funds needed for this. While I'm a life long Pennsy fan, for this quest may I suggest a NYC Streamlined Hudson instead?

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but the costs involved here are truly daunting.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR T1 Steam Locomotive Trust
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:03 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:18 am
Posts: 109
If I recall Correctly, the A1 took 18 years to secure funding, materials, and to construct. Are we to think that it will take twice the time for a locomotive twice the size? I understand there may be benefactors willing to cover major costs of building this, but nothing is outlined on the site as to how anything is expected to even start.

If I ever win Millions in the lottery, I may just have a go at building my own PRR J1 2-10-4. I would argue that it is more important than a PRR T1, but not a C&O T1, for obvious reasons. Both the C&O T1 and PRR J1 have no survivors, and were in service for much longer than the duplexes.

A Duplex could not even hit 120 on the old PRR Fort Wayne or Panhandle lines today, seeing the condition of the track.

I don't want to demean the organizers of this project, as it seems viable, but there is simply not a lot of research or thought seeming to be given to this. I could start up a group if I wanted called the J1 Steam Locomotive Trust or the C628 Diesel Trust, but it would mean nothing if there was not dedicated research done into finding the actual costs, materials, etc. being utilized for the project.

The cost of $10 would much better be spent restoring the remaining PRR steam rusting or in parts (K4,M1,I1,L1,H6,H10,etc.) than building a new locomotive from scratch, especially of this size.


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