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 Post subject: Re: Civil War deck roof passenger car brought to museum
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:00 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:37 pm
Posts: 435
Location: Missoula MT
The Milwaukee Road Historical Association (http://www.mrha.com/) would be my first stop. The Milwaukee Road is the CMStP&P after bankruptcy reorganization in 1953. They also are on Yahoogroups and are a very active outfit. The Passenger Car List on Yahoogroups would also be another resource.

You have a neat car there, and I hope that you can preserve as much historical fabric as you can. A good investment (as mentioned on the web blog that pictures the car) is to get a roof over it--quite the difference in weather between White Sulphur Springs and Libby.

Do need to get up there, I do.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT


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 Post subject: Re: Civil War deck roof passenger car brought to museum
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:41 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:24 pm
Posts: 18
Mike, thanks for the website info. Will contact those folks with our car # and see what they can come up with. Our plan is on adding a addition roof on to the enginehouse. We have already gotten the fill material put down. For the mean time we have a big tarp over the car. Cement to pour and lumber to cut for the addition. A good winter project. Say do you know about somebody that lives in Missoula that has a steam locomotive switch engine with track around their property ? Thanks Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Civil War deck roof passenger car brought to museum
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:03 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5223
Railroad wouldn't have been the Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific (CMStP&P) in that time period as the "& Pacific" didn't come until the line was extended to the west coast. Prior to that it was known as the Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul, but my guess is that in this time period it was probably known by a more regional name as the CM&StP probably was a combination of smaller, earlier built, lines.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Civil War deck roof passenger car brought to museum
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:09 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:24 pm
Posts: 18
Well, I took some pictures of the inside of the combo car and sent them to http://www.gearedsteam.blogspot.com site. It doesn't look like the stamp has been changed or doctored on. We are just trying to find out the age of the car and maybe some history of it too. Thanks Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Civil War deck roof passenger car brought to museum
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:21 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:24 pm
Posts: 18
With a lot of help from folks from Milwaukee to St. Louis to Wilmington, Delaware. Our car was manufactured 1879 by the Jackson & Sharp Car company of Wilmington, Delaware. The original car #446. This info was from a 1925 car roster. A 1932 car ownership record , listed #2515 as being owned by CMSt.P. The folks in Milwaukee are checking on when the sale took place. It may take awhile to get that information. As for the roof of the car, a duckbill style. Somewhere between 1865 and 1871 they switched from deck style roof to duckbill style roof.


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 Post subject: Re: Civil War deck roof passenger car brought to museum
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2213
Location: Northern Illinois
I'm sure that through all this you've become aware, but just on the odd chance that no one has mentioned it, the Delaware Public Archives has a rather extensive Jackson & Sharp photo collection.

http://archives.delaware.gov/exhibits/photograph/jsc/jschistory-04.shtml#TopOfPage

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: Civil War deck roof passenger car brought to museum
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:41 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:24 pm
Posts: 18
Dennis, One of the folks had mentioned the Delaware archives website. Started looking thru there pages last night. They have around 4300+ pictures of rail cars and ships the Jackson & Sharp company built. Went thru about 87 pages of pictures, only 100+ more to go!!.


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 Post subject: Re: Civil War deck roof passenger car brought to museum
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2213
Location: Northern Illinois
I think you should contact their archivist, since they may have more materials than are on the web site. I contacted them a couple years ago, and was able to obtain builders photos for all the car orders that went to the DSS&A.

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: Civil War deck roof passenger car brought to museum
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:55 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:24 pm
Posts: 18
They have some nice pictures on what I had looked at last night. Have to contact them about cost of copies. Will contact them about our car. After looking at 30-40 pages, eyeballs go cross!!


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 Post subject: Re: Civil War deck roof passenger car brought to museum
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:29 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5223
This thread was started in 2013 when the car was found and moved to the Heritage Museum in Libby, Montana. News kind of ended 4 years ago. The group in Libby were also rebuilding a small Shay, s/n 1643. A separate thread from 2015 on the steamer, hinted at problems between those working on the Shay and this car and the officers of the organization. Although NOT a Civil War-era car, the combine was a gem in its own rite, being built by Jackson & Sharp in 1879 as Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul #446. It was later CMStP&P #2515 and ended up on the White Sulphur Springs & Yellowstone Park short line. I checked the organizations website and no info or photos of the ancient combine. Anyone know what's going on?

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Civil War deck roof passenger car brought to museum
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:50 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 478
Is this it? I found it on their facebook page from 2017, no description and no other photos of passenger cars at all. https://www.facebook.com/LibbyHeritageM ... =3&theater


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 Post subject: Re: Civil War deck roof passenger car brought to museum
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:01 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:24 pm
Posts: 18
Les, My wife and I had worked on both the Shay and the Passenger car. A couple years ago things came to a head at the museum. Seven of us that had been working on the Railroad project were forced out by the Officers at the museum. Two or three guys have continued to work on the Shay, Having removed the air compressor, dynamo, steam cylinders with crankshaft and cab. Some of it is undercover, but most of it is outside. Haven't seen anyone working on the passenger car. My wife and I have talked about going back to work on the car at least. Museum still a very hostile place.


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 Post subject: Re: Civil War deck roof passenger car brought to museum
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:02 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5223
Grouse -

Thanks for the info. Hope things work out for the better. We're into this rail preservation business because we enjoy doing it. But hard to enjoy it when there are other impediments, such as you have outlined, thrown into our paths.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Civil War deck roof passenger car brought to museum
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:49 pm 

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 9:19 pm
Posts: 40
[quote="Rainier Rails"][quote="mikefrommontana"]With regard to the equipment at White Sulphur Spring Montana....

History of the "Coast":

MILW "Coast" was originally one of a group (number unknown) of 12S-1DR sleepers built in 1910 by Pullman in Lot #3787 to Plan #2477C*, named in the "Camp"-Series, and assigned to the Milwaukee Road. In 1931, at least two of these cars were reconfigured to buffet lounge solariums (16 seats), and named after towns on the MILW.

*I don't know if this was the original Plan from 1910, or if it was the Plan after the 1931 rebuild.

Lot 3787 was originally ordered to be built to Plan 2477, prior to construction, this became 2477-C. 40 sleepers, 12 for the CM&PS and 28 for the CM&StP.
Sleeper - 12-Section-Drawing Room-Smoking Room
- Plan 2477-C
12 - CM&PS: BEVERLY,BUTTE, CLE KLUM, COUR D'ALENE,
DEER LODGE, EVERETT, GARRISON,
HARLOWTON, KOOTENAY, LEWISTOWN,
MALDEN, MILES CITY
28 - CM&StP: AUSTIN, BEAVER DAM, BONAIR, BRISTOL,
CALMAR, CAMBRIA, CORLISS, EDGEBROOK,
FAIRMOUNT, FONCA, FREEPORT, HARTFORD,
IRMA, KANSAS CITY, MARKESTAN, MASSILLON,
MATTAWAN, MILOMA, MOBRIDGE, MORAVIA,
MYOPIA, MYSTIC, OMRO, PANAMA, RUBIO,
RUTLEDGE [Likely some misspellings, transcribed from poor paper)


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